Dec. 19, 2024

SWAP-A-THON 2024: Floaties for Krakens

SWAP-A-THON 2024: Floaties for Krakens

Welcome to the third insidious installation of Susto's 2024 Swap-A-Thon! This week we are visited by Floaties for Krakens!

Want to share your own creepy story, picture, or recording? Leave a 5 star review with your story attached, email Ayden...

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Welcome to the third insidious installation of Susto's 2024 Swap-A-Thon! This week we are visited by Floaties for Krakens!

Want to share your own creepy story, picture, or recording? Leave a 5 star review with your story attached, email Ayden at sustopodcast@gmail.com, DM on social media, or visit SustoPodcast.com to be shared on the show!

Sign up for Patreon here!

Hi Cuttlefish! ^-^

Welcome to Season 2 Episode 14 of Floaties for Krakens - A podcast about the monsters in your head, but reclaiming them instead.

WELCOME! Just a quick reminder that Season 1 in its entirety is available to stream on Spotify, and Season 3 is currently underway on YouTube. Go check it out!

The following episode is a bit of a throwback to our Pride Month Special called “Lavender for Monsters”. It was a beautiful four part series where we explored the intersections and power within Queerness and monstrosity.

I’m going to begin this episode description with a phenomenal quote introduced to me by our guest of honor, Robin today. This quote is by Cuban American Queer Activist and Academic Jose Esteban Munoz:

“Queerness is not yet here. Queerness is an ideality. Put another way, we are not yet queer, but we can feel it as the warm illumination of a horizon imbued with potentiality. We have never been queer, yet queerness exists for us as an ideality that can be distilled from the past and used to imagine a future. The future is queerness's domain. (p. 1)”― José Esteban Muñoz, Cruising Utopia: The Then and There of Queer Futurity

Let’s hear it for the beauties, complexities, and histories to come for Queerness. Robin Gow (it/fae/he & él y elle) is a poet and witch from rural Pennsylvania. It is the author of several poetry, Middle Grade, and Young Adult books. It works as a community educator on topics of LGBTQIA2+ and disability justice.

Robin is a literal ray of sunshine. My goodness, I’m not kidding. The work that Fae does to explore the brilliance of Queerness in all of its monstrous complexities is nothing short of astronomical. Please, go check out this beautiful soul’s poetry work Monstrous Cartography and all of the other outstanding works in Faer repertoire. Thank you so much for doing this show Robin, and I’m so excited to now call you a friend.

Today’s episode is all about the kindest person in the world Robin Gow, Robin’s mastery in writing and poetry, the power of a ghost story, how monsters become manifestation of what society doesn’t understand, Robin’s PHENOMENAL new poetry book Monstrous Cartography, the relatability of “Queer Sea Monsters”, Robin’s partner Rain and his monstrous watercolor mastery, the tears of the Squonk, Robin’s explorations of Mothman, Climate Grief, the fears of endless wandering, the amazing Paranorman film, and how Robin and myself will forever be proud, proud, crybabies; because feeling “too much” is a superpower.

-

Content Warnings:Mentions and discussions of mental health complexities, depression, grief, and the beauties, trials, and tribulations of growing up QueerMisophonia:

  • Snaps, Pops, Clicks, and Hisses throughout the episode.
-

Robin’s Monstrous Mentions:
  • Instagram: @ robin_gow_poet
  • TikTok: @ robin_gow_poet & @ transdemontologist
  • Website: robingow.com
  • Monstrous...
WEBVTT

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Hey, cool friends, it's me Adrian or Aiden. Either way,

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I am still your host and you are listening to

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the twenty twenty four swap Athon. So you may have

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heard me mention previously that each week in the month

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of December, I am doing a feed swap with a

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show that I enjoy that I think that you would enjoy,

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which means another podcast and myself are teaming up and

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we are sharing each other's episodes. So I just wanted

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to jump on and let you know that this week's

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feed swap is with Floaties for Krakens. I hope that

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you enjoy today's episode, and thank you so much to

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today's swap a Monster for agreeing to do this. I

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hope that you enjoy this episode, this treat, and I

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hope that you have been enjoying your holiday break. I

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cannot wait to see you all in the new year.

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Until then, one more time, please enjoy this episode.

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You know, we still need the stories, whether we read

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modern novels or not.

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Yes, sorry, you know, we need that connection, whether it's

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with our elders or with our kids.

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You know, we pass these stories on as something.

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Precious for me personally. It's probably just the unknown you know,

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I've always been drawn more to the unknown and whatever

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that beyonds of normal of normal life. So I would

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actually go out and look for these, you know. We

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would go to hanted houses, we would go to hanked

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areas of the cities. See what's going on, you know, No,

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whatever that comes from, I don't know, but but it

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kept life interesting.

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It was almost like an escape.

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Definitely underscape family life was not a happy life, so

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that was an escape called definitely.

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M Hey.

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Welcome to the Floatings for Crackets podcast. I am your

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host Camille Maria Costa, and it is a brilliant day

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to be monstrous high cuddlefish. Welcome, Welcome back to Floats

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for Krakens, the super incredible, amazing Queer Pride special. Yeah, Welcome,

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Happy Happy June first, Happy Happy Pride Month to everybody

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who celebrates, and everybody should celebrate because it's an amazing,

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amazing month. And I'm just I'm just so thankful and

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so like so elated, just so excited because it's such

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a beautiful month. We've had so many incredible floaties. Family

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that have been on the show that you know, identify

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as part of you know, the queer family, whether that's

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lgbt Q I I plus not binary right, like all

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all everything, everything beautifully under the rainbow. So hi, thank you,

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thank you all for being here, and I hope you

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know there is always a safe space for every single

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one of you here all the time, any given moment

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of any given day, it is safe. Yeah. Also, I'm

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outside right now because it's raining and I love the

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rain and I feel like it's beautiful to be outside

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right now. So take some time outside if you're not.

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If it's safe outside where you are, get some water something,

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somebody to eat, a nice sweet treat because you deserve it.

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But yeah, welcome to our Queer Pride special Lavender for Monsters.

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Lavender is such a beautiful metaphor in the queer community.

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It's utilized in so many different ways, and it's a

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big indicator of safety and kind of openness with one

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another and just positivity, peace, love, just all of the

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beautiful things that all bodies deserve. And I just love

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the idea of a little monster picking a lavenderflower. So welcome,

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welcome to our four part special. And of course let

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me let me just I'm just so excited. I can't

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wait to introduce the incredible, magical, magnificent Robin Gow. Robin

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is a super super freaking hero. Robin is a writer,

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an author and just came out with an incredible poetry

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book called Monstrous Cartography. So I highly recommend everybody get it.

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It's so amazing, it's so beautiful. Ah, I love it.

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I love it so much, Please go support. But also,

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all of Robin's work is kind of freaking incredible and

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explores the ideas of monstrosity and otherness right, whether that

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is queer bodies or just individuals that don't feel like

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they fit in God and Fay is amazing. I just

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I love, I love Robin. Robin, thank you so much

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for all you do, for fighting for people and just

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being such a beautiful light that individuals who feel lost

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can go to and feel guided by. So yeah, thank

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you for opening this amazing four part series. Happy Pride Month,

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My beautiful cuddlefish go dance in the rain today, and

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without further ado, ladies and cuddlefish, let me introduce to

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you Puffs plus for Squonks. Well, Hi Robin again.

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Hello, I'm so happy to be here.

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I'm so lucky to have you here. Oh my gosh,

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And let me just say again. It has been quite

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a few rough, interesting weeks, and Robin has been so

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incredibly patient scheduling this interview because my mind has been

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all over the place. So I just want to say

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thank you so much for your patience and kindness, Robin.

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It means a lot.

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It's no problem.

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How are you? How's everything?

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I'm good. It's been a busy few few weeks or

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months for me as well, so I've been all over

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the place, but good overall, that's good.

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I'm so glad. And for people that may not know,

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or they're the you know, first time listening to you,

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who are you, Robin? What do you do? So?

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I write? I am an author and a poet. I

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write books for like middle grade to YA audiences and

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then also adult poetry books, and I do a lot

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of other eclectic things as well. That's my main focus

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for today.

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It's incredible. And what got you into the world of

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writing and storytelling and poetry.

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That's a really great question. I think it's just literally

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that like my family always tell stories. My dad, like

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total my dad and my uncle told a lot of

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like ghost stories and like scary stories as a kid. Yeah,

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and they were always storytellers. Uh. And it's interesting because

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like I didn't actually like write until maybe like third

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or fourth grade, because I have some learning disabilities that

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kind of make it a little difficult to write. But

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even before then, I would like storyboard things to be

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like this is my this is my novel. Yeah, so

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I've always that's always been kind of me.

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That's awesome. It's always been in your realm. I guess

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you could say, yes, yes, I think so. Can I

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ask what kind of scary stories and ghost stories your

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family would tell?

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Oh, my goodness, anything and everything, A lot of stuff.

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We've always lived in very old houses and so a

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lot of time. I mean, it's not great for a

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young child to for sleeping, but like my parents, God,

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my dad would tell scary stories like about our house

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or about people who live there, or about like from

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his own childhood. My favorite one though, is that there

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is a there's like an old tannery building across the street, okay,

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And he said that there is like like basically like

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space aliens that like lived in the basement. And he

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would tell this tale of these space aliens, like basically

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like getting the different janitors to like become one of

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their own people and so like, yeah, it's like very

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I appreciate the way that like the stories that my

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family told are usually about our area and usually like

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either about my family or about things locally nearby. And

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then my I think my dad also kind of embellished

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some like true crime ish kind of things that happen

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nearby as well.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so so those are just some samples. Definitely a

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lot of ghosts and just I don't know, scary things

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coming out of the wall, and honestly there are a

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little bit like scary for like a kid, but I

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think like it helped make me who I am. I

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definitely have always been. We've always read a little bit

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above like our age level, like my dad was reading

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me Kurt Vonneguet like in like maybe maybe like elementary school,

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which is like a lot of it. A lot of

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it went over my head. Sure is like I didn't

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I didn't process a lot of it.

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But but yeah, oh that's incredible, and I love that

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your family nurtured that in you and for you to

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be like no, look at the beauty of words and storytelling.

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And maybe this doesn't make sense right now, but still

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you know, immersing you in that world is really cool.

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Yeah, I feel lucky in a lot of ways like that.

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That's really awesome. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. So

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I guess the spooky has kind of been also in

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your realm for some.

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Time now for sure. I remember the first story I

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wrote in like first grade was genuinely like a zombie

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story about me and my stuffed teddy bear, like helping

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helping lay to rest, like like essentially the story that

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I made up, which isn't that very original, but you know,

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I was in first grade, was basically that, like I

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don't know, some bad people in the town had killed

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other people and the people were becoming zombies because they

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hadn't ever like face had like a resolution to what

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happened to them. And I remember my teacher being like,

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I think that you need to cut that out. That's

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a little too that's a little too adults. And I

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was like, I don't know, it happens.

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Yeah, literally, Oh my gosh, that's incredible. That's so cool.

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Oh my gosh. And like I mean, zombies, right are

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so I guess, like, how can I explain it? Visceral monsters,

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Like there's just like definitely, oh my gosh, you just

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here feel all the senses with the zombie and that's

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so intense for a little body. Oh my god. I

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love that though. That's really really cool. I love that

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you found almost a safety or like a solace in Yeah,

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those stories, you.

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Know, definitely, And I think that, like, I'm sure we'll

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keep talking about this throughout things, but I've always found

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like comfort in like spooky or scary things or horror

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in general. I think, like before because there weren't like

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queer stories like when I was a kid. Really, I mean,

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I'm sure that there were. I guess what I should

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say is they weren't accessible like queer stories. I think

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I always found myself like represented in like horrible horror

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things because I feel like monsters are usually just like

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manifestations of like otherness or like people's fears around like

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gender or sexuality or any kind of stuff like that.

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And so I always found like a connection to any

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kind of monsters.

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Absolutely, Oh my gosh. Okay, And before I want to

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ask you a question about that, but before we go

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into that, what do you think a monster is, Robin?

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It's such a great question. I think a monster is

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kind of kind of exactly that is, like something or

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some some manifestation of otherness or scariness in so far

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a direction that it becomes more than are extra human

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in some kind of a way. Because but like at

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the same time, I then I think about monsters that

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are like like a blob monster isn't doesn't kind of

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touch on that as much. But I still think that

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there's this quality of like monsters generally have a consciousness

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that's like not equivalent to like animals totally. They're always

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like a little bit more sentient. And so I do

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think that there is like this quality of like fear

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moving so far that it becomes like an entity, if

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that makes sense, which is vague, but yeah, I think

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that that's what I would give definition.

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Oh that's powerful though, right, Like, I mean, it's it's

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quite terrifying how fear can manifest Yeah, definitely, right, Like

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it's I mean, the world is on fire right now, right,

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And I think it's interesting to see this idea of

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fear and how much power and privilege can come from

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somebody calling somebody a monster for example, Right, it came

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so loaded. It's a loaded word. But at the same time,

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like you said, I'm just like you in the sense

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of I growing up saw myself in monsters, right. I

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still see myself in monsters, and I find peace and

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happiness with them because that's us, right, It's like, oh

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that's me, I see myself. It is. It's so complex,

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but I think it doesn't mean we're not afraid of them.

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It doesn't mean that they don't spook us, right at

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some point. So I love that definition. That's a good definition,

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thank you. Yeah.

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I just came up with it on the fly, so

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or full.

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And of course, speaking of monsters, I am really really excited. Okay, everybody,

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So I'm going to be linking all of all of

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Robin's writings in the description box, but we have to talk.

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I don't know if my light's too bright, but we

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have to talk about monsters cartography. It's an amazing, amazing

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piece of work. And Robin, can you can you tell

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us a little bit about this poetry book.

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Sure, I've been calling it like in two words like

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queer Sea Monsters. But essentially I did a lot of

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just deep diving into sea monsters and how they are

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written about from like fifteenth to eighteenth century, like maps

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that different people who were sailing in the ocean, where

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we're writing and creating, and there's so much like folklore

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and history around how people were talking about sea monsters.

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And I think that my particular interest for this book

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is also intertwined with like the idea of like what

248
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it means to be a queer person, because I found

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this like relap with like the idea that sea monsters,

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at least how they're talking about them, and these time

251
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periods are like they're trying to put language to something

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that is real, but like people other people haven't seen,

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And so I felt like there's like some sort of

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a like overlap there between the experience of being a

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queer person and then also that that that like it's

256
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hard to name what you haven't seen and then try

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to tell people about it, which is where a lot

258
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of the sea monster stories come from. You can tell

259
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it's like a whisper down the alley kind of situation.

260
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Yes, it's, it's it's transmitted in a way. It's it's

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passed down like folklore, is right, and yes, yeah, very

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that can be again when your story is told not

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from your your own words, not from your own mouth,

264
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and then that game of telephone, right, it's it's it's

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completely different.

266
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Yeah.

267
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Right, Oh my gosh, I love that. I And you know,

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I want to go right into it because you've mentioned

269
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it so brilliantly. But what have you seen? I know

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you mentioned just now the idea of sea monsters and

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their relation to queerness queer bodies, right, and I want

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to talk to you about that, like where do you

273
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see the relation? How do you see the relation or

274
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how did that you know, birth itself in your brain.

275
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Yeah, that's a great question. I think that I think

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that especially the relation. I One of the other branches

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of myself is I do like a lot of community education.

278
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I do basically like trainings on how to be less

279
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terrible to LGBTQ plus people yes, and disabled people yes.

280
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And I think there's this essay that's written by Jamison

281
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Green who's like a trans educator, and he talks about

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like how he sometimes feels like every time he tells

283
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his story loses a little bit of himself because he's

284
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trying to like make it like palatable or understandable to

285
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like non queer people. It's sometimes when we do this

286
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kind of work, it feels a little bit like I'm

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trying to tell you anything. I can tell you so

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that you'll see me as a human and like it's

289
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important things, like people need to have those conversations, but

290
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it also does feel a little bit like losing yourself.

291
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And then there's the other I promise I'll end at

292
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a point that connects to sea monsters keep going then

293
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and then there. And then there's the quality of like

294
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I have to use these labels because these are the

295
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labels that I have access to. But also like some

296
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parts of us, I think a lot of us also

297
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just like want to exist and don't also like always

298
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feel like in love with the way we have to

299
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like use language to like express these things. I think

300
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like there's this like impulse for people to like want

301
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to deeply understand every nuance of a person and why

302
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they identify the way that they do or stuff like that.

303
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And I always feel frustrated with that like obsession with

304
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trying to understand why, because I'm like, if you are

305
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you are, it doesn't I don't really know why. And

306
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then with monsters, the overlap being there's a lot of

307
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like there's first of all, there's so much fear around

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the when sailors are telling stories about these sea monsters,

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like there's a lot of fear around it. And I

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think that whenever there's like panic or fear, like I

311
00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.559
immediately do think about like queer trans people or really

312
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marginalize people in general, because people who essentially this is

313
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like a watered down version, but there's this quality of

314
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like people who don't know any trans people being making

315
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up these ideas and stories that spin out of control

316
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about like who we are and what we are. And

317
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I think the same thing happens with like the sea

318
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monster thing, because really sea monsters are like just you know,

319
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animals in the ocean. They're just whales or stuff like that,

320
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and like these stories spin so far out they are

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manifestations of like all these sailors or people's deepest fears

322
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about the unknown. And I think that that's oftentimes people's

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fear is with marginalized people is like you are pushing

324
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on your existence unfortunately, is like pushing on some kind

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of an unknown, and people are really uncomfortable with the unknown.

326
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I mean, I think that trans people are like a

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key pressure point because it's a question of like what

328
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does it mean to be a gender? And people don't

329
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want to think about that, right, panic, and so they're like, right,

330
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they must be evil. It's like, no, we probably need

331
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to like unpack that.

332
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Yeah, oh my god, absolutely so beautiful. And I mean, obviously,

333
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you know, I never want to undermine the pain because

334
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you're right, it's it's painful, and it's it's complex and

335
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it's layered and it's difficult. But I also find such

336
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beauty in your words of seeing yourself. Yes as well,

337
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you know to me, right, like sea monsters and especially

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those ancient beasts that exist forever. Right, that idea of

339
00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:59.000
that monster constantly being in people's mouths, right, is beautiful

340
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to me. And it's like like like a powerful, powerful

341
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right entity that could eat men and could you know,

342
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take them down, right, Like there there is this gorgeous

343
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quality to them. But at the same time, Mike, like

344
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you said, right, it's it's all based on fear of

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the unknown, things that people may not understand, things that

346
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people choose not to understand, right, and just push away

347
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fearmonger that that whole nine right, And gosh, I think

348
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:32.799
that's such a beautiful, beautiful parallel. And I love, I

349
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just I love this book and it's it's so good

350
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and like, I just love I love the way you

351
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write because this is my This is the first work

352
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I've read of yours, and I love the way you

353
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.000
write and one of my favorites. I wanted to talk

354
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.559
to you about it. That's okay, put you on the spot.

355
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:54.640
I really really love cea Devil a lot. I love

356
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the painting of the I just I love it. I

357
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love this idea. I just I'm obsessed. I think it's

358
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:06.440
so brilliant. And I just love your use of metaphor.

359
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.160
I love your use of pain. I love this use

360
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of identity and trying to to search for it and

361
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find it an escape.

362
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.240
Right Yeah. Yeah, And I think that that is like

363
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.240
a question that I'm exploring in the book too, is

364
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like you feel like you're always trying to be pinned down,

365
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and then there's also like this impulse towards like trying

366
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to slip out of that somehow. And I think that

367
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:34.480
that's definitely one of the points of like interest for

368
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.880
me with the monsters is like they do feel empowering.

369
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They feel like it feels like sometimes being the monster

370
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is like, Okay, this is like what you think I am.

371
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Then like I'll be that thing and I'll talk to

372
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you in that voice, and you know, explore that deeper.

373
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.160
Yes, yes, Oh it's so beautiful. It's so lovely. I

374
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:56.680
can't wait. I'm gonna link it down below. Everybody get one.

375
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:57.799
I appreciated.

376
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.640
No, it's so incredible. It's such it's such good work.

377
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.920
I love the artistry too. Oh, the illustrations. It's just

378
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.480
it's great. It's so great.

379
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.440
Yeah. My partner actually did the cover. Really is that cool? Yeah?

380
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:14.720
Right, is that correct?

381
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.240
Yes, he does horror watercolor art, and so it really

382
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:21.359
I don't know a good easy crossover.

383
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:26.759
That's you all were made for each other. That's perfect. Oh,

384
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.200
that's so cool. That's so amazing. I love it. Great read.

385
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:33.160
Thank you so much for writing it, because it's important

386
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.359
and people need not only to hear it, but I

387
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.480
think there are so many people in the world that

388
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:45.440
can relate. So I think it's wonderful. Yeah, thank you. Okay, Well,

389
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.799
jumping over to another type of monster because I am

390
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:54.680
so excited to learn about this guy who is the Squonks.

391
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:02.880
The Squonk is a creature of basically like Woodland, Pennsylvania.

392
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.440
He has lots of wrinkles and looks kind of like

393
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:11.160
a little pig. Is known to have like a really

394
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.440
droopy face, and probably the biggest identifying quality that he's

395
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:20.160
listed as having is like he's always crying. He's like

396
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.960
gushing tears, and you can follow the tears to try

397
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.480
to find him in the woods. Some of the folklore

398
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.920
around him. Says that it's actually really interesting because it

399
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.880
has like an environmental like the story always has an

400
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:35.920
environmental spin to it in that it's said that he

401
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.319
comes he migrated up from the south because of like logging,

402
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.720
like the forests are being destroyed, and so the Squonk

403
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:48.559
moved into Pennsylvania because of the deforestation. So that's the

404
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:54.599
story behind why he's there. But he's first written about,

405
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:58.200
and there's like a like a Weird Creatures of Pennsylvania

406
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.599
book that was published in the like I think late

407
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.599
eighteen hundreds, early in eighteen hundreds, but the stories, but

408
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.079
the stories about the Squonk are much older and kind

409
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.319
of exists in a lot of small towns, particularly in

410
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:16.519
like northern wooded Pennsylvania. And uh yeah, yeah, that's the

411
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:21.359
Squonk and it's such a sad little guy. But I

412
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.559
but I love that because one of the reasons why

413
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:28.079
I specifically love like cryptids is because I do find

414
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:33.319
them it's they're usually and I love monsters, but they're

415
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:35.839
usually depicted in a little bit more of like a

416
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.319
uncertain territory. It's like we're not sure if this is

417
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.079
like like what their intentions are. And I think that

418
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.759
it just really like speaks to like queerness in general,

419
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:51.079
like I like like uh so, but specifically the squonk,

420
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:55.200
I just I feel like there's something, there's something very

421
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:57.720
sweet and like sad about his story.

422
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.319
Yeah that's a squawk, Yeah, sweet little quonk. And you

423
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.559
know you you mentioned this already, but for people that

424
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.599
maybe just don't know what a cryptid is what And

425
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:12.119
I know these guys, just like monsters, are so hard

426
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.559
to define. But in your in your words, in your eyes,

427
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:17.000
what do you think is a cryptid?

428
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.039
I think it's a creature that may or may not

429
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:27.599
be real, has not been proven either either way. And

430
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.279
I think they're very similar to monsters in that they often,

431
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.960
I mean, they often emerge around some kind of a

432
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.119
fear or like curiosity. And I think if you find

433
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:42.480
any cryptid or you'll you'll find you can follow it

434
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.279
towards some sort of a societal fear or something like that.

435
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:49.119
But I think that with cryptids, there is that there's

436
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:51.279
a little bit more of the unknown because there's like

437
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.240
this creature could actually be real, and so when a

438
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.119
creature could actually be real, there's like a the way

439
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:01.799
people interact with it is just like very curious. So yeah,

440
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:03.400
that's my crypt definition.

441
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.359
I love that, Yes, absolutely, And there's, like you said,

442
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.440
this kind of air of like we don't know if

443
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:13.640
we can believe right this story or the sidings by people,

444
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:18.039
let alone the actual being. So there's a lot of questioning,

445
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.319
there's a lot of not believing right, there's a lot

446
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.960
of shutting people down that or the being itself right.

447
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:30.440
And you mentioned too that this squank, oh gosh, it

448
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.359
has like ties with like the logging industry and things

449
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.240
like that, deforestation, what have you. And I find it

450
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.720
so fascinating how cryptids are almost always related to the

451
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.839
environment in some way, you know.

452
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:50.119
Yeah, definitely, and usually like speaking towards something that's wrong

453
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.319
with it or something that's like painful that's happened within it.

454
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:59.599
Yes, painful, exactly that, Yes, And I find that so fascinating.

455
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.000
And I don't know, I feel like they're also many

456
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:09.839
depictions of them is also being like these warning signs.

457
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:11.200
Right, Yeah, definitely right.

458
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.440
Like, I know you've written work on Mothman, isn't that correct? Oh?

459
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:21.000
Yeah. I love Mothman and his story is very very

460
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:24.200
similar in that, like he's always usually like a harbinger

461
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.920
of something bad and then like his connections to like

462
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.720
the is there some sort of a like dumping site

463
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:34.720
or something in a point pleasant Yes, And so there's

464
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.319
that like environmental tie there too.

465
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.359
It's fascinating to me, And I don't know, I just

466
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.720
feel like they're always misunderstood in every story you ever hear,

467
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.319
and I found it so beautiful. I think, if I'm

468
00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:54.279
not mistaken, Robin, the first time at least on like

469
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.720
social media or like in pop culture that I saw

470
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:01.240
the relation between cryptids and queerness was through Mothman. I

471
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:05.279
think that was the first time I saw people being like, yes, right,

472
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:10.720
like Daddy Mothman, and like finding yes so cool.

473
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:16.720
There was an essay published a lot not maybe not

474
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:19.440
that long ago, but maybe like twenty fifteen where somebody

475
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.640
was writing about how he connected to Mothman as a

476
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:26.759
gay man, and I think that, like I think that

477
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.480
there was always a relationship, but I think that that

478
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:32.279
kind of opened the floodgates and I've I've loved that.

479
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.160
I think that the community has really like taken to

480
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.319
finding solas and a lot of a lot of these

481
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.079
creatures in a new way recently, more than ever.

482
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.200
Yeah, why do you think that is? And like I

483
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:46.920
know you right, like you talked about it at the

484
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:50.279
beginning in terms of your relation with monsters or specifically

485
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:53.559
see monsters right and quarness, But why do you think

486
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:55.599
it's become such a safe place?

487
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.799
And Well, I think it's like a reckoning or like

488
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:05.039
a embracing the unknown about ourselves. Like I think that

489
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:08.359
there is like something really beautiful about that. Like my

490
00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.599
favorite definition of queerness is by jose Esteban Munos, who

491
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:16.160
who says that queerness is like not yet here. And

492
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.000
I just think that that's such a beautiful definition and

493
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:23.319
there's some really deep connection with that definition and like

494
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.839
monsters or like cryptids specifically, and that like they represent

495
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:31.400
a question of is this real? And so I think

496
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:35.079
that that draws queer people in and when you and

497
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:37.160
you know, you see all the fan art of the

498
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.400
monsters and like, yeah, depict them as sweet or caring,

499
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.720
and like I think it's a way of like being

500
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.359
caring towards that part of yourself that you're unsure about

501
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:48.839
or like that unknown in general.

502
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.640
Monsters are like a beautiful way to I feel like

503
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:59.079
explore shadow work or like right, like it's like an

504
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.680
I don't I mean, I don't know the psychological reasoning

505
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.279
is behind it really, but I don't know. I just

506
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:11.160
feel like very difficult conversations, maybe traumatic experiences or what

507
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.759
have you. There's so much easier to digest or communicate about,

508
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:20.759
like through metaphor in general. But like I think with monsters,

509
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:23.559
it's like so so much easier to paint a picture

510
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.960
if this monster, for example, the squonk right, like this

511
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:32.319
squonk is crying. It's having a really hard time, for example,

512
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.680
and it's like kind of exploring like, well, sometimes I

513
00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:39.000
feel like a wrinkly little crying squawk. Yeah right, and

514
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:43.720
it's interesting and safe, but like to explore it that way, I.

515
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:47.279
Guess you know, Yeah, definitely I agree with everything that

516
00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:51.000
you're saying. Yeah, it gives space for those feelings and

517
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.640
makes them feel ironically like less scary.

518
00:31:54.680 --> 00:32:00.200
I think, yes, yes, absolutely, it makes you feel you know,

519
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:02.359
I love In the beginning, when you were saying, like

520
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:04.759
the definition of monster and how you were saying almost

521
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.400
like double the humanness or like this idea of extending

522
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.599
the humanness as well, because too much, right, And I

523
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:16.000
don't know, I feel like it's so hilarious how we

524
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.519
learn how to be more human through monsters. Yes, if

525
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:21.920
that makes any sense at.

526
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.680
All, No, I totally see that.

527
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:31.039
It's fun. It's fun to talk about that stuff. Yeah, okay,

528
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:34.359
So so back to the squonk and this idea of

529
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:39.319
him them crying right, like trails of tear, Like that

530
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:44.039
is such a profound thing to happen to anybody. Why

531
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.480
Why do you think tears are a huge indicator that

532
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:49.480
either the squonk is around or why do you think

533
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.440
that is a huge whether it's a defense mechanism or

534
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.839
just a natural right why?

535
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.119
I mean, like this is getting like philosophical, but I

536
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.920
do feel like it's like an early manifestation of like

537
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:04.160
climate grief, if that makes any sense, like a grief

538
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.880
around like human destruction, or like I feel like the

539
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.079
squonk like bears the weight of like the forests in

540
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.720
that like he I feel like that that's why he's sad,

541
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:18.319
because like that that that story about him being like

542
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.160
a displaced, being like already and then like living in

543
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:26.920
this forest and probably feeling like unmored a little bit.

544
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:30.359
I think that he like bears that weight because you

545
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.200
have to ask, like why would animal like keep like

546
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:39.400
always be crying yes, yes, And and then like people's

547
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:42.279
desire to find the squonk in the stories that I've

548
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.480
read about it is fascinating because usually people are trying

549
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.759
to like hunt an animal, but it's almost meditative, but

550
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:52.240
but not for the squonk, Like they're not trying to

551
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:54.720
hunt him. There, it's like almost like meditative to be

552
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.599
like I'm curious about finding the squonk, or like people

553
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.400
are warned to like not go too close to the squank.

554
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:04.000
So it's almost like in that way also kind of

555
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.599
like a manifestation of like I think that in specifically

556
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:11.519
like a United States context, like people are really uncomfortable

557
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:14.079
with like grief and like I so I think that

558
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.960
there's like the two pieces of the like the climate

559
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:19.280
grief thing, and then also the like the way people

560
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.320
interact with it is like I'm not sure if you

561
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.480
want to go so far as to follow the tears

562
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.960
to like this creature that's holding that yes, yeah, and

563
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.199
like it's it's it's it's so interesting because he looks

564
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:36.000
so silly, but it's very profound, like very profound. I

565
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:39.960
always joke that he looks like I have two pub dogs,

566
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.920
joke that they are squank like they look like it. Yes,

567
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:48.239
it's wrinkly little babies. And my one dog is always

568
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:50.559
crying and so she's like definitely a scross.

569
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:56.119
I love that. That's so true, And like, I mean,

570
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:59.480
Unpacking Grief Ray is just a whole whole other show.

571
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:03.079
I feel like grief in any way is just so

572
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:06.480
complicated and so difficult. Not everybody does it the same way.

573
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:08.760
I don't think two people can grief the grief the

574
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:13.440
same way. And I am so fascinated by this futuristic

575
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:18.719
not futuristic present idea of climate grief of you know,

576
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.679
I mean, it's so heartbreaking and so terrifying to think

577
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.840
about the state of the environment in the world and

578
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:29.840
what can happen in just a year and seeing that

579
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.960
go and seeing that die right before your eyes. And

580
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:38.760
I think we've seen very many renditions of the idea

581
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.119
that right like climate change isn't real and like X,

582
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.159
Y and Z, and I feel like a lot of

583
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.199
that is fear. I feel like a lot of that

584
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:49.800
is not wanting to face that grief, not wanting to

585
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.360
face the reality of the situation.

586
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:54.119
Yeah, for sure.

587
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:58.559
And I love that idea of the squank acting as that,

588
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.679
you know, facing face that reality, facing that grief head on,

589
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:07.639
you know, yeah, oh yeah, which breaks my heart too because.

590
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.199
And maybe you shouldn't have to do that alone, you

591
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:10.840
know what I mean.

592
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:15.199
And like, maybe I'm getting philosophical too, but I think

593
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:17.679
it speaks a lot to you know how you mentioned

594
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.440
Robin kind of the weight and the responsibility placed on

595
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.800
queer bodies to explain themselves, right, to have to prove

596
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.519
themselves and be like, no, this is who I am

597
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:33.079
and I shouldn't have to approve it or explain it

598
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:36.679
to validate it to anybody. And I feel in the

599
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:41.119
same way, the squonk is holding all this responsibility improving

600
00:36:41.239 --> 00:36:45.599
and grief and holding other people's ugly feelings. And I

601
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.119
don't know, like, I feel like that's another that that's

602
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.559
so heartbreaking to me that they have to have that responsibility.

603
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:55.679
Yeah, And I think that that happens for a lot

604
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:57.800
of a lot of other cryptids. If we just like

605
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:02.000
continue that as like a crypto holding like a the

606
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:06.320
responsibility of like, uh, whatever kind of a issue that

607
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.639
they're at the intersection of, or like whatever kind of

608
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:12.159
a fear they're pushing on. They they they're kind of

609
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:16.880
holding on. They're they're born out of that space of

610
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:18.639
people not being able to face the thing.

611
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.639
Mm hmmm, mm hmmm. Oh, it's it's it's wild to me.

612
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:26.920
And I know you said too that there have been

613
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.280
a few stories that you've read or listened to about

614
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:37.000
the Squonk and how people search almost ritualistically, right, like, yes, meditative, meditatively.

615
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:39.760
Are there any stories that have stuck out to you

616
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:43.079
with the Squonk and that could be something you've heard

617
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:44.800
or maybe even in pop culture. I don't know if

618
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.960
the Squonk exists, Yeah, but I'm very curious.

619
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:51.920
I don't know how much the Squonk exists in pop culture.

620
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.920
I think that I think about him so much that like,

621
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.159
I think that he's more well known than I think.

622
00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:57.960
He actually is.

623
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:01.800
But some of the ones that I read, specifically from

624
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:05.360
some of those early guides are usually like a father

625
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.280
telling a story to like a son, which is also

626
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.880
an interesting dynamic and usually kind of like it's usually

627
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.960
like a cautionary tale is to like not follow the tears,

628
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.480
because there's also this idea that if you follow them,

629
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:22.159
you might get like stuck like and you might be

630
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.159
wandering like the squonk, like stuck in the woods, wandering

631
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:31.280
like the squonk, which is so fascinating because you know,

632
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.719
that's just like so clearly related to like not expressing

633
00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:38.480
grief too much and like not And then and then

634
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.400
the fact that it's usually told to around boys. I mean,

635
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:42.920
I've never read a story that I had to do

636
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.840
with girls. There's something about like in the storytelling something

637
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:52.559
about masculinity there too, which is just it's just all

638
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.639
very fascinating. But that's usually the course that the stories run,

639
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:58.960
is like a father or somebody telling something to younger

640
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.400
people to be like to be aware of it. And

641
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:04.400
also I think it's related to that general thing that

642
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:08.280
don't go too deep in the woods. You know, that's

643
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:12.239
like most most monster stories have some element of like

644
00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:14.880
you shouldn't go too far in the woods. That part

645
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.679
is like, you know, I get that, but but then

646
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:20.480
it's sown with these other other contacts and stuff. I

647
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:21.079
love that.

648
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.400
Oh I never thought about that either, this idea of

649
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:29.280
kind of repressing your emotions and that can happen in

650
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:33.920
a lot of toxic masculinity, right, And that's so interesting.

651
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:38.519
And I mean, I I for one, I love monsters

652
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:41.480
that grief, that cry. I think there is something so

653
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:46.000
haunting about that. I did a lot of research and

654
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:50.199
work with the Weeping woman with in Mexican. Oh yeah, yeah,

655
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:55.440
love her. She's my girl. And you know, I gosh,

656
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:59.960
I I learned so much. I think about my Mexican hair,

657
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:03.920
but most importantly like my father and kind of that

658
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.760
toxic masculinity that he had to deal with. And I

659
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:11.679
mean I've seen him cry what twice like in my

660
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.159
whole life, And much like we were talking about earlier,

661
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:18.880
I think it's interesting how these narratives and these monsters

662
00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:23.400
that outwardly cry, that outwardly express their emotions can bring

663
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:27.119
that out of you. Yeah, right, like in so many

664
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:27.960
different ways.

665
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.719
In a lot of ways, it's like like again, like

666
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:33.679
burying that weight of a lot of pain and like

667
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:36.400
feeling it. While for people who can't feel it too,

668
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:38.800
like I kind of see that a little bit.

669
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:43.960
Yes, yes, they hold it, they represent it in that way.

670
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:49.119
I think the one story I had ever heard about

671
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:53.280
the squonk was very similar to yours about this idea

672
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.000
of somebody, you know, searching for it or hunting it

673
00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:59.920
or what have you. And the thing that I remember

674
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.920
is somebody did catch it, but when they got home

675
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.159
and opened the bag or the sack, it was just

676
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:10.480
a puddle of tears, I think, which is fascinating too.

677
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.159
Oh yeah, it's elusive. It's a little bit like a

678
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:16.320
almost like a leprechaun in that way, and that like

679
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:21.760
you can't really catch it. I think that people in

680
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:24.039
these stories usually get drawn to being like, I have

681
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:25.880
to find this because I've been following this for so

682
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.119
long and then never being able to take that that

683
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:30.440
creature all the way home.

684
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:35.960
Oh my gosh. Yes, And I mean, and that's that's

685
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.239
crazy too. I think if we think again about this

686
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:42.199
idea of the environment, yes, you're also robbing this creature

687
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:42.719
of a home.

688
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:46.159
Yeah for sure. Yeah, I don't know.

689
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:49.039
I find it, I don't know. And when we really

690
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:53.440
think about it, the idea and the concept of monsters

691
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.440
and home, the sense of home and the sense of place,

692
00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.280
is very interesting.

693
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:01.400
Yeah, definitely right.

694
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:04.320
It's almost like, I guess, animalistic in quality in the

695
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:08.119
sense of like protecting maybe territory or like don't come,

696
00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.280
don't don't you know, pass this border or what have you.

697
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:18.000
But it's so interesting and almost always I feel like

698
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:22.400
somebody's sense of place, that that trust is broken, somebody

699
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.320
breaks in, destroys it right doing stuff that humans should

700
00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:29.079
never be doing. And then that's you know what starts

701
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:33.800
the scary story, right like you infiltrated my home and

702
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:38.199
I'm protecting it and this is my space, or or

703
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:40.239
you know, the monster is searching for a home, is

704
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:44.440
searching for their place of origin, which is interesting and

705
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.519
I think you know, many people can can relate to

706
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:48.360
that idea too.

707
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:51.599
Yeah, And it's also interesting then too that like we

708
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.719
paint the monster usually in stories as like the bad thing,

709
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.519
you know, like even though the story is so clearly

710
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.960
appointing to the fact that like this creature is displaced

711
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:05.039
or like it was people's fault, that it's it's the

712
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:09.599
way it is, and yet it's still like even when

713
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.480
I think about like sary movies or these or these stories,

714
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:16.559
the monsters like is always still like the antagonist and

715
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:23.119
the person is is the protagonist. Then there's not usually

716
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:25.159
a reversal. I can't really think of an example, at

717
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.119
least at least for the squonk or anything that I

718
00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:29.039
can think of a lot of a lot of that

719
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.719
reversal of seeing like the reckoning with the fact that

720
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:35.480
like humans made the monster in some kind of.

721
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:40.239
A way, of course, and like it's always a humans

722
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:44.280
definition of what a monster is, right, and they never

723
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:48.639
really get the chance to be able to talk about it,

724
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.599
to be able to have the language, the privilege of

725
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:54.800
the language to talk about who they are and why

726
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:59.159
they exist. You know, I was just watching that the

727
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.599
old twenty fourth seen Planet of the Apes the other day.

728
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.119
Oh wow, yeah, So, I mean, you know that story,

729
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.599
and that story has been you know, utilized in so

730
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:13.000
many different ways and in different avenues of art and things.

731
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:18.840
This idea right of the human kind of befriending an animal, right,

732
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:24.960
a monkey in this case, and there there's obviously really

733
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:28.960
horrible humans, uh duh in this world that misc right,

734
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:32.840
mistreat the animal and call them monsters and make them

735
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:35.760
into monsters and x y Z. And there's this really

736
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.960
heartbreaking moment in the movie where there's two monkeys, right

737
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:43.360
that are that know how to communicate and have seen

738
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:45.960
two sides of humans. One of them grew up with

739
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:49.400
a very loving human that gave them everything, and one

740
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:54.480
grew up being abused and tortured by humans. And it's

741
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.960
so heartbreaking to be like that. You see this monkey

742
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.360
hate and want to kill and want to never be friends,

743
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:06.800
be right with humans. And it's because he learned hate

744
00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:09.559
from humans, right, He did not learn to love, He

745
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:14.039
did not learn kindness and generosity and any of that.

746
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:19.599
All he's ever known was hatred and pain. Yeah, And

747
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.920
I think that's a very profound way of thinking with

748
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.880
with what humans get to decide as monstrous. They have

749
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:32.239
so much control in that way. It's horrible, it's terrifying.

750
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.320
And if you grow up your whole life thinking you're

751
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:40.559
a monster, then you're a monster in that in that context, right,

752
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:44.639
the monster, right, the bad the bad monster that people

753
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:47.639
want to paint you as. It's horrifying.

754
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:51.199
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I mean like just such a

755
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:54.679
direct parallel with like the experiences of just like multiple

756
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:57.840
different marginalized communities, because when we think of like the

757
00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:02.519
common narrative is usually like people are depicted as monsters,

758
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:07.639
forever pushing back against anything like at all, Like you're

759
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:12.840
expected to like be essentially like a perfect victim in

760
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.519
any kind of sense. And I think that so much.

761
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:18.159
I mean all of our history. I mean, I think

762
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:23.079
that there's change happening, but always written by like the dominant,

763
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:28.079
dominant force, and that that practice is so related to

764
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.320
this in that like in the story of the Monster,

765
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:33.800
in that like, people are made out to be monsters

766
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:37.440
for responding to what happened to them.

767
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:41.800
Oh, it's so heartbreaking. It's so horrible, you know. And

768
00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:45.719
you're right this idea of pushback, right like, Oh, suddenly

769
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.679
you push back. You're a monster, You're the bad guy,

770
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:52.519
you're the antagonist in this narrative or what have you.

771
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.960
Even though they're just maybe defending their home, maybe they're

772
00:46:56.039 --> 00:46:59.039
defending their will to live, their right to live their existence,

773
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:03.360
just trying to be you know. Oh gosh, it's it's

774
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.320
so heartbreaking. You know what that reminds me of too.

775
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:11.039
Have you ever seen Para Norman Robin No?

776
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:14.519
I haven't. I've heard it's very sweet, though, Should you I.

777
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:16.000
Feel like you would love it. I don't want to

778
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:17.920
tell you, okay, I don't want to give anything away

779
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:20.840
because there is you know, some great reveals in there.

780
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:27.199
I was just gonna say that story I love narratives

781
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:30.159
in which you think you know who the bad guy is, right,

782
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:33.639
you think you yeah, oh yeah, this is the monster whatever,

783
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:38.760
and it's like, oh no it's not, no, it is, yes.

784
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:38.960
I do.

785
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:39.400
I like.

786
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:42.559
I like that too, especially when then the monster is

787
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:46.480
like the actual monster in the society and not the monster.

788
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:53.199
Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely, And I don't know. I I

789
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.400
really wish there was a book or a movie or

790
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.119
something that existed in which cryptids uh got to tell

791
00:47:59.119 --> 00:47:59.960
the story finally.

792
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:05.559
Yeah, yeah, for them, I think I think that their

793
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:09.960
times will definitely come. I think that there there's got

794
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.119
to be there's got to be some some more cryptied

795
00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:12.960
told stories.

796
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:20.480
There has to be. Well, you know, why why do

797
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:24.159
you think the squonk exists? Robin? I know we've talked

798
00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.760
about it in so many different ways, But why is

799
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:30.039
that story? Why is that creature? Why is that monster? Why?

800
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:33.000
Why is this entity's existence so necessary?

801
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:36.480
Yeah? I mean I think that it's born out of

802
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.320
like both a lot of the things that I that

803
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:42.559
I've talked about in terms of like curiosity about like

804
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.000
changing environment, people's fear of changing environment, and I think

805
00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:50.639
that people, I think that it's the story must be

806
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.639
born out of like also a curiosity a little bit,

807
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:56.519
because there is that idea of the trail and like

808
00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:59.280
the idea of following the trail. So I think that

809
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:04.119
that he comes from curiosity, which isn't necessarily like a

810
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:06.320
bad impulse. Like I don't think he's a monster that's

811
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:10.280
totally demonized, sure, And I think that I think that

812
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:14.559
there there's something really beautifully human about that that trying

813
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:16.679
to put a name or a face to your curiosity

814
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:21.760
about unknowns or about in this case knowns about like

815
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:26.199
following grief, and then unknowns about the forest too, because

816
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:33.599
especially in like northern Pennsylvania, it's it's not necessarily like Appalasha,

817
00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:36.519
but it's like definitely connected to that history of like

818
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:41.039
a reverence or a fear around like the deep wilderness

819
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:44.360
and like you know, a rightful fear. And I think

820
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:49.760
that's along with that is also like the the trying

821
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.320
again like that reverence towards the forest too because like

822
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.000
it'll kill you, you.

823
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:55.840
Know, yes, yeah, very very much.

824
00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:55.960
So.

825
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:03.119
Yeah, Oh that's beautiful. I don't know that that's that's

826
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.239
so wild. Yeah, that's so beautiful. And why do you

827
00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:09.000
think why do you think the squonk has made such

828
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:11.199
a presence in your life? Why you know, I always

829
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:15.880
find it so like beautiful when yeah, people have a monster,

830
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:19.159
right that they really love and how they see it

831
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.760
come back throughout their life or throughout such for example,

832
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:25.239
as an artist, right, it's like, oh yeah, I always

833
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:27.840
have to do art around you know, this this character.

834
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:30.199
I see writers that are like, oh yeah, I always

835
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.559
have to write about this monster, right, Like why do

836
00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:35.599
you think it's been made such a presence in your life?

837
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:37.880
Yeah? Well, I mean, like at a very basic level,

838
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.199
like I'm a cry baby, Like I cry a lot

839
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.519
and see and so like when I heard about the Squonk,

840
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.679
I think that that was my immediate connection is like

841
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:52.719
as somebody who cries a lot, like being like aw,

842
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:56.880
like he gets me. And I think that that that

843
00:50:57.119 --> 00:50:59.639
I think that understanding the story of the Squonk also

844
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:01.760
like how me find meaning in like the ways that

845
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.599
I feel deeply because it's again it's not something that's

846
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:11.599
like readily embraced to be like very emotional. And so

847
00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:13.840
I think I find a lot of like comfort in

848
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:16.800
a monster that like his whole thing is like he's

849
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:21.679
consumed by his emotions. At least that's how I interpret

850
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:26.519
his crying like and so I think that I think

851
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.599
that that's like why I love him and I find

852
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:33.639
a lot of like comfort in in him. And I

853
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:39.599
actually have I've written two pieces of that are about

854
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:42.360
the Squonk and like characters interacting with the Squonk. Yeah,

855
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:46.239
they haven't come out yet, but I have, Like I

856
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:49.679
have a children's picture book that's about a young a

857
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.679
young trans boy who is a cry baby and like

858
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:57.320
wants to find the Squonk as like a you know,

859
00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.599
like there's a creature that's like me. He has a

860
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:01.760
lot of brothers, and so he kind of feels like

861
00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:07.599
he's very like, you know, effeminate. He's not very rough,

862
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.679
and so I think that like the same reasons that

863
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:12.559
he connects with us longer the reasons that I do.

864
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:16.039
In that like it's a feeling of not being alone.

865
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:19.400
It's a feeling of like there is something kind of

866
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:24.000
almost magical and like powerful that you can connect to

867
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:24.800
in that way.

868
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:32.280
That's so freaking beautiful, Robin, I'm trying. It's beautiful. I

869
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:36.639
mean as as a fellow EmPATH, as a fellow I

870
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:41.480
will cry on command for anything, and as a person

871
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:47.719
that definitely got bullied growing up for feelings too much, right, Like,

872
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:52.199
I you have a superpower, right like you have nobody

873
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:55.960
can feel like you do, and that is so rare,

874
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:59.800
especially in a world that is so quick to hate and.

875
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.320
Is so quick yeah cold, definitely.

876
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:07.519
Right and responding with emotion and responding with kindness, and

877
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:11.480
you know, you feel so much about something that you

878
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:15.199
you literally magically make water with with your right like

879
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:18.920
that's yeah, it's very beautiful, so beautiful. Oh, I can't

880
00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:22.519
wait until you that book comes out. I am very excited.

881
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:27.880
Please let us know because we're gonna pilaster it everywhere

882
00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:32.800
because that sounds absolutely beautiful. And I also love the idea.

883
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:34.360
I mean, granted, I don't know where you're gonna go

884
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:36.960
with the story, but I I just love the idea

885
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:42.360
that they have each other, right, they can recognize each

886
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:45.679
other and see each other and exist with each other.

887
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:49.360
I think that's so beautiful. Oh I love it.

888
00:53:50.199 --> 00:53:51.159
I love the thanks.

889
00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:51.519
Yeah.

890
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:53.599
I think that that's definitely like a theme that I've

891
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:57.079
carried in a few of my like writing pieces, because

892
00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:59.920
that's like this The Heart of Dear Mothman two Basic,

893
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:03.079
which is my middle grade book, is really just about

894
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:06.840
like finding a connection with a monster. And I think

895
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:09.559
it's just really back to like myself as a kid,

896
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:11.960
like I was often like very lonely. I didn't have

897
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:15.639
like a lot of friends, and I think that I

898
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:20.840
was pretty heavily bullied. And for me, like I found

899
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:25.159
a lot of like refuge in like monster stories and

900
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:28.239
making up monsters and like like I had invented like

901
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:31.840
a whole uh, I don't know, like mythical world on

902
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.199
top of my world and just like those things that

903
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.519
you do to cope with that, Yes, And so I

904
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:43.199
write stories that are you know, touch similar, similar experiences

905
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:45.760
because that's what I know, and.

906
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:48.360
That's beautiful and people need it, you know, you need

907
00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:51.719
to tell your story and talk about it because so

908
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:54.639
many people can find solace in your bravery and being

909
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.159
like oh my gosh, like somebody else felt that way too.

910
00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.599
I'm not alone, I'm not different in that way. I

911
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:04.440
can exist as myself. I don't have to change, you know.

912
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:08.000
That's rare, and ah God, I love I love kids

913
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:10.519
that grew up with monsters. I love it. I love it.

914
00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:14.039
I feel like there's something we can all share in

915
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:16.760
some way. And I'm sure our minds were dark and

916
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:21.679
weird and so wacky, but in the best way. And

917
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:23.960
I think you said it perfectly. That idea of a

918
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:31.360
coping mechanism very real, very very real. So I mean,

919
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:34.519
you know, kind of branching off of what you just said, right,

920
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:38.639
why not just cryptids, not just the squonk? But why

921
00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:41.679
are monsters so important? Why? Why should we keep talking

922
00:55:41.719 --> 00:55:44.920
about them? Why should we keep writing about them, creating

923
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:45.639
art with them?

924
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:45.880
Right?

925
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:48.519
Like? Why why should they continue to exist?

926
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:52.199
I mean, I think it's about that, like reckoning with

927
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:56.119
the fear. Like I think that we need to reckon

928
00:55:56.199 --> 00:56:00.320
with the things that society is afraid of, and answers

929
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.000
are usually like that, that ability to reckon. And I

930
00:56:03.079 --> 00:56:05.920
think sometimes it's easier most to talk or find your

931
00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:11.920
way to a conversation through a metaphor, because yeah, I

932
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:15.320
mean I think that that's why humans are like enamored

933
00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:18.719
with metaphor and symbol is because it's it's so it's

934
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:20.639
so hard to talk directly about the thing.

935
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:27.039
So yeah, okay, please tell everyone what just happened just now.

936
00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:32.199
So the Transformer blue and like everything in my house

937
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:35.719
went totally dark, and I'm like very superstitious and so

938
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:38.880
my like media impulse was like, oh my gosh, we

939
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:43.760
talked too much about monsters, like something something wild has happened.

940
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.079
Obviously it was just a transfe we're blowing, but it

941
00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:48.599
would definitely made me be like, oh.

942
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:53.079
My god, maybe sorry and then I misspeak.

943
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:56.239
I'm sorry it did we di misurpresent you No.

944
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:58.920
I think what was so crazy too? Is I mean,

945
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:02.440
on my end froze after like we all need to reckon,

946
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:05.199
and then like it froze, and I was, my gosh,

947
00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:07.719
I was like, oh my god, yes we do, yes,

948
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:11.960
we do. Do we need to Oh my gosh, well

949
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.800
continue continue, I'm so sorry.

950
00:57:14.840 --> 00:57:19.559
We were totally fine. Yeah, I guess I guess what

951
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:21.920
I was saying is like needing to reckon with the

952
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:25.599
thing that the monster is, you know, putting pressure on,

953
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.079
and monsters really giving us that that space to be

954
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:34.599
able to do that. And I think that there will

955
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:37.840
always be new monsters and that monsters will always cycle

956
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:41.239
in and out of like relevance. Like a monster I

957
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:44.320
think about too. It's a lot. It's not as related,

958
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.519
but like the vampire, I think about a lot, and like,

959
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:50.280
oh yes, the reasons why the vampire becomes like relevant

960
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:54.400
again and again and usually it's like slightly different, but

961
00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:57.400
there's always some sort of a tie to like sexuality

962
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:00.679
or like some sort of a panic around that, And

963
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:03.559
so I think that that's just a case study, and

964
00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:07.599
like monsters are always going to be important for having

965
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.360
a place to work out our like fears or whatever.

966
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:12.000
Society is like rappling with at.

967
00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:17.199
The moment, as you mentioned reckoning right, and yes, a

968
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:21.400
safe space that many many people may not have in

969
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.880
any other way. Yeah, oh, I love that. I think

970
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:30.559
that's beautiful. That's so great. Okay, well get into the

971
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:35.280
complicated ending questions. But do you think that the Squonk

972
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:35.840
is scary?

973
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:41.079
Not at all? I find I don't find like most

974
00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:45.800
scary things like scary. Yeah, so I'm not always like

975
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:49.320
the best person to ask, but I like what, like

976
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:52.079
I talk about horror movies, I'm like, that's my comfort movie.

977
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:54.800
I go to sleep to that every night.

978
00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:59.199
Yes, but I do I don't think the Squonk is scary.

979
00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:02.320
I think that if anything, I feel like he's a

980
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:04.719
little bit inviting in terms of like, but that's just

981
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.079
because like everything he represents are like things I want

982
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:09.920
to talk about, and so like I don't find I

983
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:10.920
don't find him scary.

984
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:16.039
I love that it's it's it's normal, he's Yeah, I

985
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:18.519
just feel in a lot, that's all. And those things

986
00:59:18.519 --> 00:59:19.559
don't have to be scary.

987
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:23.079
Yeah, definitely. I mean I think the other thing that

988
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:26.039
that makes me think about is like we were talking

989
00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:28.360
a little bit about how like feeling too much is

990
00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:32.280
often like, you know, really not looked at well, or

991
00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:34.639
like people are really mean to people who feel too much.

992
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:37.599
And I think the reality is like people who feel

993
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:40.719
too much or air quote like, it's also like a

994
00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:43.079
natural reaction to the world, and sometimes it makes you

995
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.800
feel like completely unmoored when you're like, why isn't everyone

996
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:49.840
else like feeling this? And I think that that that's

997
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:52.480
another reason why I like, I'm not scared of monsters

998
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:55.159
or things, is because it's like it's making tangible the

999
00:59:55.239 --> 00:59:57.960
thing that like it's hard to make tangible.

1000
00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:03.079
Yes, yeah, are like physical emotion, Like they are the

1001
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:07.159
embodiment of all of these things that are not talked

1002
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:10.599
about or not you know, it's something that you're afraid of.

1003
01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:15.760
I mean, you're so right, and that's so fascinating. They are.

1004
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:18.960
They are the difficult things, they are the uncomfortable things,

1005
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:23.360
they are the scary things for some people, right, and yeah,

1006
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:29.599
it's amazing you know. Okay, well, do you think Robin

1007
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:31.280
that the squonk is a monster?

1008
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:36.440
Yeah, I definitely think so, just based on like his

1009
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:43.000
qualities and such. He's he's definitely, uh, he's definitely scary

1010
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:44.760
to other people. And I think that some of the

1011
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:48.679
qualities of the like manifesting the scary things that people

1012
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.920
are afraid of, definitely give him a monster quality. And

1013
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:54.159
then some of that like luring people a little bit

1014
01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:57.159
with the trail of tears a little bit like there's

1015
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.400
there's some sort of a like pulling you into a

1016
01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:03.320
darkness with which is great, but definitely it's giving monster

1017
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:03.719
to me.

1018
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:09.360
Yes, yes, absolutely, and it's amazing. I mean, like especially

1019
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:12.440
with your definition, right, it's it's also that idea of

1020
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:18.400
things don't really grow unless in uncomfortability, right, like growing

1021
01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:22.039
and changing. It's it's it's important, it's natural, but it's

1022
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:26.599
hard and can be messy and ugly and strange and emotional,

1023
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:29.559
and I think the squank does that beautifully.

1024
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:32.239
Yeah, I agree.

1025
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:35.360
Okay, Well, last question. Unfortunately, even though I know we

1026
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:39.760
could probably talk about this for like eight hours, you know,

1027
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.599
we don't want to blow any more transports anything like that.

1028
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:50.280
But say you're just chilling, just relaxing, having a lovely day,

1029
01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:53.719
and all of a sudden, I don't know if the

1030
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:56.559
squonk would knock. I don't know how they would make

1031
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:01.159
themselves like appear to you. But for whatever the squonk

1032
01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:05.079
appears to you, what would you do? What would you say?

1033
01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:08.280
How would you react in that moment?

1034
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:11.880
I think that I react probably similar to the way

1035
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:14.440
I react when I see any other kinds of wild animals.

1036
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:17.760
I like want to give it it's space. Like uh,

1037
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:20.920
I guess, I guess that that's probably how I would

1038
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:24.880
interact with it. Like my my impulse is always to ask,

1039
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:29.440
even just like wildlife like questions about the universe, because

1040
01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:31.320
I feel like they have so much wisdom. So I

1041
01:02:31.519 --> 01:02:34.320
probably try to get some sort of information from a

1042
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:37.360
visitation from the squonk, but I would also try to

1043
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.800
really give it its space. I like, I used to live

1044
01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:45.559
in like more more Woody, Pennsylvania. Now I'm more like farmland.

1045
01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:49.519
But when I would walk, I would often see like bears.

1046
01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:56.559
Oh yeah, I know, And like I think i'd probably

1047
01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:58.679
interact with squank a little bit similar to that. In

1048
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:02.440
that like you're like, okay, like this is yours. I

1049
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:05.320
am going to be nice and I don't think this

1050
01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:07.760
squak would hurt me or anything. I think I just

1051
01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:12.280
like encountering like any kind of a honestly any wildlife. Again,

1052
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:16.559
like I feel like they're you know, there's some sort

1053
01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:19.599
of a like universal like divinity within all beings, and

1054
01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:22.199
so like I want to be like kind to that.

1055
01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:25.440
And I would definitely try to resist the impulse to

1056
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:27.199
follow it too, because I don't know if it would

1057
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:29.320
want that. Like I wouldn't want to like make it

1058
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:31.679
feel watched, because I think that when you were respect

1059
01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:34.639
an animal or like a creature, like that's when you

1060
01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:36.880
can form the best connection. So I try to be

1061
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:38.719
very nice. But if I knew where it lived, I

1062
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:41.440
would definitely like leave little offerings for it. Like that's

1063
01:03:41.480 --> 01:03:45.159
just like the witch in me is like I don't disperspect,

1064
01:03:45.559 --> 01:03:47.679
but I might leave a little bowl of like apples

1065
01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:50.280
or something. I imagine it probably likes apples.

1066
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.559
Oh who doesn't. Who doesn't love a good apple. It's like,

1067
01:03:53.639 --> 01:03:59.920
here are some lotion filled Kleenex for you, some basoline,

1068
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:03.079
some elotion, just to I know, crying takes a lot

1069
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:07.039
out of your body. It's like, here's some water. Yeah,

1070
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:11.440
for sure, recharge your little body. Ah, that's lovely. And

1071
01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:15.639
I think again talking to this idea of the environment

1072
01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:18.880
into animals and just just let them be right, like

1073
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:22.360
let them live and exists, and you can respect that

1074
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.360
and you can love that, but you can also do

1075
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:28.639
that from afar really and that's important. Maybe I give

1076
01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:34.000
them their space. I love that, Robin. That's beautiful. That's

1077
01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:53.440
so lovely. Oh so amazing. What are we channeling? What

1078
01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:54.119
are we doing?

1079
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:57.920
I know, I'm like, oh my goodness, I haven't had this.

1080
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:03.360
It's like I don't know the monster activity going on.

1081
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:07.320
I love it. Hopefully, hopefully it's all been all and

1082
01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:07.880
good fun.

1083
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:09.159
I believe it is.

1084
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:20.559
Yeah, me too, Me too. This episode of Floats for

1085
01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:24.480
Krakens was written and recorded by Me, Camille Maria Costa.

1086
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:28.320
A monstrous thank you to Robin Gao for such a

1087
01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:32.000
kind interview, a big thank you to Michael Kosman for

1088
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:35.119
producing a stellar episode, and a huge thank you to

1089
01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:40.320
Natalie Hedberg for designing such a phenomenal logo and music

1090
01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:42.800
for the show was also written and produced by me,

1091
01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:47.920
with a special appearance by my Tata topia Costa. Thank

1092
01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:50.760
you all so much for tuning into today's show. It

1093
01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:54.000
truly means everything to me. If you have questions or

1094
01:05:54.079 --> 01:05:57.480
curiosities about the research or media referenced in today's episode,

1095
01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:00.800
everything will hopefully be in the description box. You can

1096
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:03.119
find us on our website or our socials links in

1097
01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:08.239
the descriptions as well. Anyway, thanks again for being here everyone,

1098
01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:12.159
and just a reminder it's okay to be afraid of

1099
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:16.239
the monster, but it's also okay to love the heck

1100
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:33.760
out of it too. Keep being monstrous and keep shining bright.

1101
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:37.000
Welcome back with friends. Thank you so much for tuning

1102
01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:40.000
in to this year's swapathon. I hope that you are

1103
01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:42.039
enjoying this. I know that I am not on my

1104
01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:45.119
feed right now, but you can always find me on

1105
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:48.800
social media at sustal podcast on every platform, or by

1106
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:52.679
visiting my website at www dot susopodcast dot com. Additionally,

1107
01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:54.519
you can send in your own stories that you would

1108
01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:56.280
like for me to share in a Letters from the

1109
01:06:56.320 --> 01:06:58.920
Beyond episode in the new year. You're already to know,

1110
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:00.880
how did you send me a I am on social media?

1111
01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:03.199
Send me an email to SUSO Podcasts at gmail dot

1112
01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:06.079
com visit my website and contact me there, or leave

1113
01:07:06.119 --> 01:07:08.800
it in a five star review on Apple Podcasts or

1114
01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:12.000
a comment on Spotify. Thank you so much. I will

1115
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:14.400
talk to you in the next one and until then

1116
01:07:14.880 --> 01:08:17.800
note this bye.

1117
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:00.119
S