Antumía - Water Spirits of the Emberá People

0:20 A cool friends, it's me Adrian or Aiden. Either way, I am still your host and you are still listening to SOUSTO, the podcast of paranormal folklore from Latin American cultures. Welcome back, thank you for returning from the beyond, and if this is your first time, welcome to Sousto. We're so happy to have you here, y'all. A lot has been happening lately. I feel like this Eclipse season really put me through the wringer. It dragged me through the mud. But I'm on the other side. We are down a car, which means we don't have a car at this moment of recording, but hopefully this week we will be going to get a new one. Listen. Car troubles are so annoying.

1:06 They're the worst. It is not fun at all. It's so expensive for whatever reason. And we had always I'm just gonna give you a really quick personal look into my life. But Jeff and I planned this was always the plan was to get a new car. However, the plan is happening a lot faster than we anticipated, so it's sooner than we wanted it to be. But this is what we wanted. Eclipse season was just like I'm gonna go ahead and rush that along for you. Don't you worry about it. I'm gonna make the decision for you. You have no choice but to go through with this, So thank you. I guess I don't know anyway. I hope your Eclipse season was not as rough as that, or if it was, I hope that you've made it to the other side with me as well. But you know what, I'm here and so are you, and that's all that matters.

1:50 So thank you for being here. We're gonna go ahead and jump into quick updates for the show, so of course upcoming events. We have an addition, but a couple reminders. First off, we have Hollow Weird at the Ruise Branch of the Austin Public Library. This is a free, adult only event that's happening on October tenth from six to nine pm. I'm kicking off the event with a storytelling and a discussion at six pm, So if you're gonna get there, get there a couple of minutes early, just so we can settle in and get the night going because it's going to be a lot of fun. And then after the discussion and throughout the evening, you can put your horror knowledge to the test with the horror trivia that they're hosting that starts at seven fifteen, and then there's going to be spooky crafts throughout the night, so make sure you go to that one. Very excited for that. I've done several events with the Austin Public Library.

2:32 Thank you all so much. By the way, please keep having me back. I have fun every time we go, so I wouldn't be coming back if I didn't. Right. The next event is the night Owl Spirit Social. This is a ticketed event and this is happening on a Halloween night, October thirty first, from five pm to midnight. It's going to be so much fun. Listen Halloween parties. They happen every year. We're actually moving hours so that I can do this event because I would not miss it for anything, that is how much fun it is. I'm dedicating my Halloween night to it. As I know are so many other people and you should be one of them. So I'm going to be speaking on a panel and the hour panel is called when the veil is thinnest. I also have a table that I will be at all night. So if you go to the event, please make sure to stop by say hi, let's take a selfie, let's just chat. I love meeting you all in person. It's so much fun. And aside from panels and the vendor market, there's also going to be a costume contest, There's going to be tattoo specials and more.

3:26 When I went to the Spirit Social last year, I got this little tattoo right here, my little ghosty. You probably saw pictures of it on social media, but if you are a best goalfriend on Patreon, then you are seeing this in video right now. But regardless, there is so much to do at the Spirit Social. This is their second you're doing it. I'm so excited to be invited back. And if you want to get your tickets you can do so by visiting the night owlpodcast dot com. They will sell out. The VIP tickets I know for sure are sold out. There should be still the all Access pass which gets you access to the panels and the market, and then the right pass I think gets you access to the market but not the panels. So either way you will have a chance to see me and so many other cool people regardless of which pass you get, but you do not want to miss it, I promise you they will sell out. And a new addition to the lineup, we have the Strange and Extraordinary Fest.

4:16 This one is happening on November twenty second at twelve pm. I will also have a table here and also speaking on a panel, and of course there will be a Spooky market. But if you cannot make it in person, do not worry. There is an option to stream the sessions and the panels online, so you can get your tickets, whether that is in person or online. To watch the again sessions and panels, you can get your tickets by visiting Strange and extraordinaryfest dot com. So far, that's it for events again. If you have an event that you would like me to be present at that you think, hey, Aiden Susto should be a part of this, feel free to tag me in comments, put me in contact with event organizers. If you are an event organizer, please feel free to reach out to me. I'm always looking and willing and excited to work with people, especially online events.

5:00 But we're going to move on to the next ding on my list here, which is the book club. So this month's Susto spell book Club we are reading It came from the Closet Queer Reflections of Horror edited by Joe Velesse or Valise. Sorry Joe if I mispronounced that. I'm very excited to read this one. This one is another one that's been on I'm not going to lie. Listen. The Susto spell book Club is actually just a scheme. It's a scheme to get me to read through my TBR pile. It just so happens that other people have a lot of, if not the same titles on their own pile, so again, they're all going to be on my TBR pile. But this one, you know, I've seen it in the wild several times, and each time I look at it and I think, should I get this?

5:42 Should I not? Maybe not? And then I just put it on my list, you know, I write it down and I say I will read this one day. Well October is that day. Again. For the month of October, we will be reading it. Came from The Closet Queer Reflections on Horror edited by Joe. One more time, I'm just gonna say, Joe V out of respect, I don't want to butcher that as all. The book club is free for anyone to join. However, Patreon subscribers do get to vote on what we read, and they have exclusive access to the book club's discord chat, so that's always fun to join in on. And before we get into today's episode, we are going to take a look at one last thing and that is a Spotify comment. This comment is from JT on The Demon's episode featuring one of my best girl friends, Alejandra Sanchez, and JT said, this is the validation and confirmation I needed to hear right now. Spiritual warfare is real. Thank you both for having this important platika. It's appreciated more than you know. JT.

6:34 I'm so glad that you enjoyed that. Listen spiritual warfare, whether that is on a grand scale, whether it is from individual to individual or from spirit or entity to person, that's part of why we are all here, right we at all I think at some level, if we're listening to this, we sort of believe in that in some way, and it can manifest them any different way. So either way, I'm glad that that episode resonated with you. I'm going to put the link for that episode in the episode description below if you haven't heard it, or if you just want to give it a re listen. That is actually I think one episode that many people connected with so huge. Shout out to my bestdie Alejandra. If you haven't heard that episode again, link is in the description go check it out. Now that is all said and done, thank you for sitting through that. We're gonna go ahead and dive into this week's episode, which is about the anthumia.

7:40 Our story begins not in the forest, but in a gray government office in Panama City. Doctor Esteban Morales, a corporate anthropologist, tapped away on his keyboard, zeroed in on his latest research. He studied people, but not solely to understand them better, but to know how to manipulate them for businesses. He was a man of pressed shirts, polished shoes, and a notebook, always ready to record what he could turn into a marketing tactic. Across from him sat his boss, a sharp eyed bureaucrat with the air of a man who had never once touched the soil of the country he ruled over. Isteban's boss clasped his hands together and leaned forward. Esteban. He said, the embedrak people cling to their rivers like a dog to its bone. We need those rivers for dams, for hydroelectric power, for the future of this country. But the Mbedra keep refusing our offers.

8:39 They reject money, they reject further relocation. They insist the water is theirs. What we need is an understanding of who they really are, the kind of understanding that lets us pull them away from the water, convincing them it's what's best for them. He leaned forward. Find out why they refuse, find out what stories they tell themselves about the water, and then tell me how to break them away from it. Esteban adjusted his glasses, nodded gravely, and thought, this will be simple. Days later he arrived at the edge of the parka Nacional Chagras. The heat pressed down like a weighted blanket. Cicadas shrieked in the trees, and ahead of him through the canopy lay a newly built in Berah village. Wooden houses sat on stills, floating above the soil, Smoke curling gently from cook fires, children splashing in the shallows of the river. To Esteban, it was a curiosity. To the Embira, it was a testament to their survival. They had already lost so much of their land and been pushed to this new place in the Chagita's River watershed. They didn't know if they could be pushed from another home. The people greeted him politely, though with caution, and then the man he had been told about emerged, the Haibanah, the spiritual leader of the community.

10:00 His name was Rito. His hair was streaked with gray, his chest painted with hagua designs that shielded his skin, twisting around limbs like the rivers themselves. He spoke in careful Spanish, his voice low and steady. You are welcome here, doctor. Our people always offer hospitality, no matter what land we have been driven to, far from our original homeland. We have always been welcoming of those who come in peace. But I must ask why have you come. Although we open our arms to visitors, we are wary. A step On smiled, bowed his head respectfully, and lied. I came only to learn to observe your traditions, to share with the world the beauty of your culture. Rito studied him for a long moment, then nodded once. Then listen carefully.

10:55 The Haibana said. For the Emberra, water is not just water, It is life. It is the root of everything. We believe the world began with a giant tree. When that tree fell, its vines spread across the earth, and from them poured rivers. The waterfalls, he gestured toward the sound of the rushing water upriver, are where this world and the next touch, where the veil is thin, where spirits move between, Esteban wrote furiously in his note book Mythology Primitive Belief System Obstacles to progress. Out loud, he said, fascinating, I would like to learn more about your relationship with water Edito's eyes darkened. Some knowledge is not for outsiders.

11:47 Some ceremonies are dangerous if done incorrectly or without respect. The air between them thickened. Esteban pushed further. Please let me tell the world about how important was is to you, so that they can understand your culture, so that maybe they will give it the respect it deserves. The Hibanah stared back grimly. There are spirits in the waters, spirits that are dangerous to humans and can only be contained by a Habanah who knows how to tame them. Your misguided curiosity with water will summon an anthumia, an evil spirit from the other side of the veil. A StEB Un stared back and held back a laugh. I'm not afraid of spirits. I want to know these stories so that we can tell them to everyone. In the back of his mind, he thought about how he could use this fear of spirits against the Embedap people to scare them away from their land. This could be exactly what his boss was wanting. The Hibanah only stared back his once polite smile, turning gruff. At last, the Hybanah said, you may eat with us, you may sleep tonight, but in the morning you must leave. That night, a Steban sat by the fire, listening to stories sung by the elders, songs about jaguars, about the spirits of the forest, about the rivers that fed the land. He nodded and smiled, politely,

13:19 pretending reverence, while in his mind he imagined his report and how pleased his boss would be. But when the fire burned low, he saw Ritho rise quietly and slip away into the darkness, heading toward the river. Naturally, a Steban followed. The path curled through the forest, its roots grabbing at the toes of Aesteban's boots, Shadows shifting in the moonlight. The hum of insects that had filled the air at dinner grew quieter, as though the jungle itself was holding its breath. He followed the sound of rushing water until he reached a clearing. There, under the silver light of the moon stood a narrow waterfall. It was not tall nor grand, but alive, with an ethereal shimmer.

14:10 Mist clung to the rocks, and the air was so cool it prickled against his skin. On the river bank erithonelt, his body bent forward, his painted hands raised in prayer, his lips moved in low chants, his words weaving with the sound of the falling water. And then something shifted. The night halted. No frogs, no crickets, not even the rustle of leaves in the wind. The surface of the pool below the falls rippled, though no stone had been thrown. A StEB On couldn't believe it, but the water parted, and from behind the misty white veil of the waterfall a shape emerged. At first, a Steban thought it might be a person, tall, slender hair, black as riverweed, hanging down in heavy strands. But then he saw the face.

15:06 It was not human. Its eyes glowed faintly, reflecting the moon, like an animal in the dark. Its skin was too pale, stretched too tight, and from its mouth came a sound, a low, guttural quack, like a duck, but twisted deep and sinister. The antumia. The creature, stepped slowly onto the river bank, water streaming from its body in sheets. It tilted its head, watching Aritho with something like inquisitiveness. The Hibana did not flinch. He held his palms upward, whispering words so soft that a Stebon could not catch them.

15:47 The Anthumia leaned closer, its mouth opening, rows of teeth flashing like wet stone. It lowered its face to Edito's hand, as if about to bite a Steban. Breathless with awe, stepped closer to sea, and in doing so, his boot slid into the river, just the slightest touch of water, but that was enough. The antumia froze, its head snapped around, and its eyes locked on a Steban. The sound it made this time was no low quack. It was a screech, high and piercing, rattling through his bones. The thing plunged back into the river and in an instant. It was racing toward him, its movement impossibly fast. A dark shadow, pulled by a current. Adito's voice thundered across the water.

16:42 No fool, I warned you. I haven't finished the ceremony. But it was too late. The antumilla surged from the water, its dripping claws latching around a Steban's legs. The strength was unreal. He was yanked from the bank, thrown into the coal. He screamed, thrashing, grasping for air. The river swallowed every cry. The current pulled him toward the falls. Edito's voice was still shouting, desperate and furious. You are doomed. Your presence sum into the antumia and there is no escape. Now I can no longer control it. Try to make peace with the water before you are taken to the other side. Let it cleanse your soul. A Steban couldn't think, He couldn't hear the pleas Eritho shouted at him. He clawed at the water, but the antumilla's grip was unbreakable.

17:36 The roar of the waterfall grew louder, closer, until the world was nothing but the sound of water rushing, until Finally he was pulled through. On the other side, there was no river, no light, no sound of the forest, only darkness, endless and suffocating. All he heard was screaming, not from his own throat, but surrounding him countless agonized voices that had been dragged there before him, And all he could feel was emptiness, the weight of eternity pressing down. That is where the fool who wouldn't listen to the wisdom of a Haibana, doctor Esteban Morales, remains forevermore. Welcome back, well, friends, thank you so much for listening to that story. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed putting it together. The first source that we're going to jump into here and a reminder, as always, all the direct links to these sources will be on Patreon in the SUSA Google Docs page for this But the first one again is from a website called Pueblos orihinarios dot com and the entry on this page is called Antumia Madre

19:07 del agua or mother of water, So that is one of the things that they call the anthumia. It's known as either the Madre de Aua, but the anthemia can present itself in masculine or feminine forms, or even in child forms. But this is a really short entry just giving an overview. And again a lot of these sources are translated from Spanish to English, so if it sounds a little off, the translation was a bit off either way. This says the anthumia is closely associated with water. They can be either again feminine or masculine. They are an evil high or an essence or spirit that emerges from the water and carries off men to drown and slash or eat them. So this could be I don't know if it's specific to just men or I think it's or what it says. Even in Spanish it says he said yeva loos ombris, So again this is specific to men.

19:53 But I want to speak specifically about this word. So it said they are an evil high. It's jai and there are different variations of this word, and we're going to go a bit more into depth about what that is. But here it just says in parentheses next to it essence or spirit. So you could think of a high as just a general general kind of ghost. Maybe that's kind of what they're attributing as a spirit. Or ghost or something. This continues they never eat shamans, which is the hibana. So that is a word from this community in the Embedra people. And you might remember, I feel like I'm jumping all over the place, but these these pieces will connect. Their promise you. The Embedra are people that are mentioned in the een Gap episode, so this is in Panama. And again the Mbra they were said to live in certain parts either through the Darien Gap or the een Gap or towards like the exits or the entrances of them. They live kind of in that area.

20:52 And so this the idea of them came up, and then the idea of this one creature also came up in that's in the research for that story. But this continues that they the Antumia, they do not eat the shamans or the hibanas. They actually work with them. And this says that under the command of a hibana or a shaman, they may carry out evil deeds or quote evil deeds. But in this part of this entry it says under their command they eat only the fingertips, noses, earlobes, and lips. So when and if the Antumia attack people or if they're sent to attack. They'll eat random body parts, which is very strange. It's specifically these like they don't eat the whole person, just they restrain themselves. They're watching their figures. They don't want to eat the whole person, just like the little pieces. Right. It says it lives underwater.

21:39 The anthomia lives underwater only seen by the Hibanah. Again, only the shamans can see them, and its voice can sometimes be heard at night, sounding similar to a duck's quack. It's presumed proximity causes panic among people. They are often the hibanas guardians and will leave the river to protect it or if the Hibanah orders them to harm some So again, these are river dwelling creatures, monsters, entities, whatever you want to call them. They're river dwelling and the only time they leave is when they are protecting the river, the wildlife, or when the shaman de gaibana orders them to leave it for whatever bidding they need done. Right. I think what is a little amusing about this is what if you just hear a duck out in the wild at night. I like it would be scary because you think of like other animal noises that people hear at night, right, So like you think of the bobcat, right, and it's scream or it's shrieked, sounds like a woman screaming.

22:34 So there are areas of Mexico that they say that LRNA is out there. They heard LRNA, but it's just this animal. It's shrieks sound like a woman's screaming. But that does sound I think that sounds creepy. Hearing a duck's quack doesn't to me sounds scary. But it's kind of funny to think of a group of people. Let's say that you know, up at night out in the wild and they hear a duck duck quacking and then they all freak out. I don't know, ducks are cute to me, so it's just it's kind of funny to me to make that connection. But either way, this says that its appearance can be that of a large snake, a wild boar, or a hairy black man with this lothful face is what this says. There is a drawing here, and I'll put this in the post for the episode of like a depiction of an anthumia. But this idea of the serpent does come up later. I think in relation to the high or the the he. Again, there's variations of the spelling. We're going to talk about that.

23:31 The next source that we have this is actually from a dissertation and the title of this dissertation is transformations of Eternity of Man and Cosmos in embeda Thought. And this was written I think in it says in nineteen ninety three. Yeah, in nineteen ninety three at the University of Gotborg, which is I think it was somewhere in Europe. But anyway, written by A ven Eric Isaacson. If you all go to this and again you can just search. This is available online. So if you just search Transformations of Eternity by saven Eric with Justic Kay Isaacson, this should come up. It is a like four hundred page dissertation. But the direct linked again is in the SUSO Google doc. If you go to page fifty nine, there's this section titled Reptiles and Riverine Monsters. And I want to read through this with you all. It's a bit lengthy, but I think it's all very interesting. So this says the native conception of the river as a transformable being which through its multiple manifestations and variable guises, threatens or exerts an ominous influence on the lives and actions of human beings in its vicinity is vividly described in myth. So essentially, what all of that said, or my interpretation of what that said, is that the way that the people in this area perceive the river, it impacts how they live their lives because of the myth or the folklore surrounding it. Right, then that's a very i think watered down, very simple, basic interpretation of what that said. This continues. A variety of beings, either friendly or fatal to man, reside in the river, and the shaman is the only one who can cope with them through his knowledge and ability to communicate with the spirit world. So again this is talking

25:03 about the hibana. Again. The shamans are the only ones who are said who can see these creatures and work with them. This continues in any Choco river. The fishermen or the canoeist promptly points out the dangerous spots in the river, which by tradition should be avoided when fishing or bathing or all together. During the critical hours of the day and night, and during transitional periods of the life cycle when humans are exposed to the anger of the water beings. So there are spots in these rivers where people know, stay away from that, don't go there. That is where trouble is. This continues. The myths relate the fate of humans of the past, of ancestors who were subjected to the wrath of the river as a consequence of their inappropriate behavior or the disobedience of given rules.

25:46 So it's also what I'm picking it from this is that these creatures are sent to punish. They are tools of like discipline, right. This continues. The myths graphically describe the metamorphosis of the river into a huge mouth devours humans into the underworld of the river. But the myths also tell about the benign inhabitants of below who assist the humans and guide them along the waterways that connect our world with theirs. So there are also, like it says here, benign entities that help the humans out. And I feel like that is always the case in every episode that we have of some sort of nature creature. They're like, I'm going to I'm gonna say fae just to connect it, because I feel like that's also really widely known. But any sort of like nature dwelling, whether it's forest, water, what have you. They they they help as much as they harm, or it just depends not maybe not as much, but they can help and they can harm. There's always there's always that kind of like duality, I guess, and this continues. The visible river from which people can earn their livelihoods and near which they make their abodes is for the embedda ocular evidence of the once established and still unbroken contract with the aquatic underworld.

26:55 Fishermen or playing children on the beach run the risk of being spirited away by the ever present water monsters of the world below, as witnessed by the myths. So that just establishes that there is a paranormal connection to the water with the Embeda people, that there are myths and legends and creatures that surround these bodies of water. And typically in our research, when we're looking up the Embeda people, they typically live in the structures that are on stilts near the rivers. And I'm assuming that's in case it rains and if the river rises or it floods, then their houses aren't stilts because it's had like between six to ten feet off of the ground. So it's interesting that there's all these myths and there's this i mean danger associated with these bodies of water. But that's just how they live, because again, like water is also life, and it's integral to their lives and how they live.

27:49 But anyway, this continues. The rivery and underworld is not only the abode of the human like beings and mythic relatives of the embedda of this world. Among the numerous mythical monsters and beasts that haunt man from the imaginary world in the depths of the rivers, three main categories of beings stand out. The most important of these and one of the most dreaded is the antomia. And there's different spellings of the word. So the one that we're using for the title the episode is Anthomia, which is with the u anthumia, and then in this dissertation it's antomia. It's antomia, and actually, to be more accurate, it's actually antomia antomia antomia. The accent is on the a here and the accent is on the eye on the version that we use. But this says that it's generally described as master or mother of the water. Again, Madre de Lawa, either with male or female attributes, but sometimes appearing as a pair, so they're coupled up. Sometimes interesting. It says.

28:45 Antomia usually has anthropomorphic features, often appears as a child, but its face and abundant hair are said to resemble those of the sloth, especially when it is seen streaming through the water. So there's now this idea that this creature can appear in several formats, I'll say, or several versions. It'll manifest in different ways, but this sloth kind of face is pretty consistent. It says. It is the principal assistant of the shaman, but can at the same time be his deadly enemy if directed by another hostile shaman. So shamans can work with anthumias, and they can direct the anthumia to attack another shaman or anybody else for that matter. But if another shaman is hostile or pissed off for whatever reason that somebody else they can just sick it on them. Essentially, this continues. Any person who dares to remain on the beach of the river when the shaman is communicating with the anthomia runs the risk of being devoured as the master rises through its cosmic aquatic opening. So that is Essentially, what the story that we put together is about is that this person intruding on that communication, on that whatever is happening between the shaman and the anthomia or the hibana and the antomia.

30:00 When someone interrupts that, it's grounds for being devoured, basically, And this says there is a great variety of antomillas, and their own master is said to be an underwater being called do Hura. So now there is sort of this maybe not class, but this hierarchy system of these things. So there's the antomillas, which are these again sloth faced creatures that can work with or for haivanas or shamans. But there is a master of the antomias called the do hurah At, which we did not get into in this story. We're just talking about one specific anthomia, right, And this says. The myth about Ventura's travels to the underworld, recorded by Brado and Baldo, opens with an episode in which Ventura, who has insulted the vindictive Cosasa, is dragged into the river by the antomia of Cosasa, but in a furious underwater battle, the hero is rescued by the antomia of another more powerful shaman. So this seems like this, The Adventures of Ventura are in I'm thinking this is a book called baud O. This is so strange. When I look this up Baodo Baldo, nineteen eighty four, I'm not getting anything. I'm getting like random results on Google that don't have anything to do with this. So hey, I want to look into that more for you, but I am not finding anything. So if anybody out there knows anything about that, please let me know, because that's so strange that nothing is coming up anyway. But it's a story about this character who has a battle with an anthomia, but he's saved by a different one. So again it comes down to the individual that is working

31:31 with or is in control of the antomia to decide whether they're going to do harm or help right, this says Antomia is said to live in the depths of the rivers, particularly in spots characterized by abysmal mud or quicksand, and its house is to be found where a strong current has hollowed out deep holes in the river bed. Such a characteristic place is described from among the embida of the Upper Sinu River basin. And this person goes on to just describe how an Antomia's home, so to speak, is formed in the river beds. It's just kind of hollowed out whole with mud, and it looks like there's no bottom to it. And this continues as well. A historical reference stressing the awe that the Embeddah hold for Antomia is found in a letter from eighteen oh eight addressed to the Spanish colonial authorities, in which the native leaders of the village of Guidebo express their respect for Antumia, quote, whom we fear so much that it would be impossible for us to express it. Another kind of ominous aquatic beast is referred to as Nusi or Nunsi, which is usually described as a gigantic fish that lives in deep caves and the rivers from which it threatens to devour bathers.

32:37 So we're moving on from the Antomia. I wanted to do this because it's interesting that, again, there's so many myths that surround the waterways or the river, specifically with the Imbada people, so I thought it would be interesting to cover them. And I think this is what we're going to reference that high creature that we talked about earlier. But this says the nusi, right, it says the monster shows itself by night with its eyes burning like fires. According to the Embeddra of northwestern Antokia, the soul of a dead shaman or a dead haibana one and the same changes into a nusi animal. The Embeddra of the Upper Baldo also mention a kind of nusi they call doi mama or water jaguar. Again, these names, they can have different meanings even within the same community. So some of them say that the nusi is the soul or what a shaman transitions to when they pass away or when they die. It can also be depending on which, again region, it could be that a specific type of nusi can be this water jaguar or a doi mama, which is something different that's not a person, right, I don't know. But again, these names they have, they're they're lending themselves a different meanings. Okay, I'm gonna skip over a bit to get to this third one. This says the third category of monstrous beings that rule the Riverine underworld is usually referred to as in local Spanish and as heh by the embira, which is je and I'm assuming it is the same thing as the Jai the high,

34:08 but this is heh high. Hey. I mean they seen close enough in spelling that they could be the same thing. And that's what I'm assuming. But again I could be incorrect, but this says while the related term HPA refers to the Boa constrictor of the choco Ophidian fauna, the mythological hit is usually described as a giant snake that roams the aquatic underworld. I feel like I'm saying that aquatic is aquatic, aquatic aquatic, I'm quacking. I'm an anthomia. It's aquatic, right, Okay? Anyway, the mythological Hea is usually described as a giant snake that roams the aquatic underworld, always startning to emerge from the water to snatch humans and devour them, taking them to the subterranean realm. As mentioned earlier, the anthumia can present itself as a snake or a water serpent. Again, there's this connection between antumia and he where Antononia can manifest as you know, many different things, but including a snake.

35:06 There is also specifically a chah. So I'm like, is it that like square rectangle thing? Like all rectangles are squares, but not all squares are rectangles. Is like all anthumias are his are also his, but not all his are anthumias. And if you follow to that, please please let me know, because I know that made sense. This is the one time I'm sure about it. Watch it, watch it not be, watch it be I'm wrong. But anyway, so the hey, is this sea or this river serpent that can drown people and take them. This is subterranean realm. When I hear that word realm, I think of another dimension, another side of the veil, like not this reality. Right, I'm not sure this continues. The MBDA of Northwestern Antokia say that the giant hit is able to locate its victims ten kilometers away from deep in the river head gives rise to whirlpools which drag people as well as canoes down into its big mouth. So this could be the I guess, like the quote explanation for what this creature actually is. And I was thinking that earlier because it talks about how the antomia can like open its mouth big or it opens like a waterway to swallow people to bring them in, but only the shamans can see them.

36:17 So if humans see someone dragged into the water, and they don't see anything else. They just see the water moving. I I was thinking, what if it's just whirlpools? And this is what they're using to explain that. Right, but this continues is intimately associated with water and water supply, and the myths testify to its inherent nature as identical with water itself. Okay, you'll are gonna have to follow me here because I read this earlier and this is very square, right tangle red tangle square, but not really, it's just okay, here, check this out. It says the heir snake makes the river grow and flow over. In a mythological account taken down by Bento in nineteen seventy eight among the Chami, a small striped worm is said to be placed in a small gourd where grows rapidly at the same time as the gourd is filled with water. Finally, the worm is transformed into an enormous heh in a huge lake another myth. Okay, so before we move on, some people will think that if it's a heh this worm, if you put it in water, the worm will grow to the size of the body of water that it's in, or too like an appropriate size to fill up, you know, a big space, and then this continues. Another myth, also recorded by Pinto in nineteen seventy eight, tells about Suranave, which devours everyone who comes near it. At last, four twins kill the monster with their lances and it vanishes.

37:35 Upon the spot of its death and disappearance, a huge lake is formed. So it's saying, when they kill this thing, this Hey, if it's big and they slay it, it turns into a big body of water because it's that big. But if it was a small one and they killed it, it'd be just like a tiny poddle. I'm assuming right anyway, This says Vascol, who characterizes Hey as the master of the water, also calls attention to this obvious connection between Hey and the making and the existence of water. However, the water might also disappear when the head being associated with it in myth is destroyed through the magic action of the shaman. So if it's destroyed spiritually, so if it's not physically killed, but if it's spiritually, like we'll use the word exercised from the land or from this place, then there's nothing left. There's not even water left. The water is gone so if you put the worm into follow me here, If you put a worm that is actually a heh into a small river, it becomes the giant river. If it's killed physically, it turns back into the river. If it's dealt with by a shaman, if it's killed spiritually or exercised again, that's the word I'm using here, then there is no water anymore. It's just gone anyway. Let me if you followed that, I think it's a very interesting take of how this thing is like the states of being, that it can exist or not exist when it's killed anyway, this says. Norden's Gold reproduces an account of the drained lagoon at the Do Gambado River, which once had been filled with water, and the abode of a giant snake he Now this is spelled with h e until the snake was expelled to

39:06 the underworld by a shaman, upon which the lagoon was emptied. This is written by Wassin in nineteen thirty three. And then this says. In most variants of the myth of Heru Botawara, the underworld water monster is described as a giant heh snake Heru Botawara, which is a character in another story blows his magic flute to make he appear in the river. The dramatic encounter with the zoomorphic water is vividly narrated in a version recorded by Cain. Among the Embda and Banama quote the water was threatening, they say, the river was rising. When that to the top, they say, the he comes leaving, comes leaving with eyes too big, comes to the top. When in that they say he took him. Below they say, no one was left. It took him. They say the water remained smooth. And that's an excerpt from that story. And then I'm going to skip ahead to the end of this entry. And this says the mythological monsters which roam the riverine world, despite their common habitat and generally aggressive attitude towards humans, are essentially different in nature from each other, apart from the obvious medley of appearances and physical peculiarities that distinguish one from the other. Judging from mythical accounts, there is one main faculty that distinguishes the heh snake monster from the beastly rest. The he intimately connected to the water itself, which is associated with the riverine nature and aquatic configuration.

40:27 As a living being, HEH not only lives in the water of the river, but it has the faculty to control and even make water. What is more, he is able to metamorphosee itself into plain water and correspondingly to make the river assume a snake like nature and body as well. In the mythological state of things, the streaming water of the meandering river changes into a wriggling giant snake, and the turbulent water becomes its wide open mouth, ready to swallow humans standing on the edge of the river mouth. After which quote the water remains smooth, as if nothing happened. Right this finishes, the river becomes head because he is the river, the same river which once emanated from the orfidian roots of the cut hennane tree, and the same river that man reproduces in his face. So there is a large, very very very big system of myth and folklore that these people will talk about, or that the Embeda people talk about, and it's essentially like part of their creation stories. So what this ended with the henaneh and I think we're going to talk about that in an upcoming source. That is basically like their creation story.

41:33 It is the tree of life or that idea or that concept of the tree of life where essentially, and I'm probably gonna go over this again, but there was this giant tree that was cut down and when it fell. I think this came up earlier too, the vines that spread across the earth. Those vines turned into water and became rivers. So the idea of water being mythical and mystical, it goes all the way back to their creation stories. And it truly is everything, like it's connected to everything because everything is connected to it, and in some cases some things are it like the heh and I went so heavy on the hay. I really enjoyed using this source because again I think it's one of those things where the antumia can be a hh, but not every hit is an antia. Okay, we're going to move on to the next source. This is another I'm not sure if this is a dissertation or thesis, but this was another academic source. If you look up Embido Mythology main Myths, Features and Functions pdf, one of the sources is from Revista Bioetnia and it's Bioetnia dot ii, ap dot org dot co O I believe, and this is an article, but anyway, I took an excerpt from this article that I wanted to share with you, and it taught and it talks about a lot of the creatures that we mentioned earlier or just now. And this says quote. The most well known and vibrant myths and legends include the

43:06 origin of humanity, the tells of Hunupotowara, the stories of Heh or Hippa, the giant serpent, the adventures of Ventura, a cultural hero from the Upper Beldo for some communities, and hundreds of stories featuring the mysterious beings of the Yamba's world. Yamba's world. I tried looking up that word, and that was another one where I kept hitting a dead end. So if anybody finds anything about that, please send it my way. It's y A m b e r As. But I'm assuming it's because it's saying mysterious beings of the Yambdra's world. Yambras maybe has to do something with like mystical, like it's like an overarching kind of like a generic term. Anyway, this mentions nusi, which we know now is what a shaman transitions to when they pass away or what they can turn into. And then this continues Adibada Guangano mothers of water or mad Awa or Antumiya and HAIs goachiuas among the main ones.

44:01 So those are all different names for all these different stories or beings from from these stories from Embeeda mythology, and then this continues. These are governed by Antomia or Antumia, who is said to live with Antumia uera a being even more powerful than him. So this right here, I think what it's saying is that all of these creatures fall under the umbrella of Antumia, which is why I'm thinking when I was saying earlier, and Antomia can be Ahaz because he again, like we mentioned just now too, it falls under that umbrella. But in Anthumia is a general term. And this also reminds me. This idea of a general term or a general like entity that works or the Shamans can work with it reminds me, correct me if I'm mom. But the Wekufe episode and I'll put a link for that one in the description below as well. But when we talked about the weak Gufez, they were said to be like a general kind of term that shamans or people who practiced I'm going to use the very general and probably inaccurate term witchcraft or even hia that they can work with the wikwufez, but it's a general term for an evil entity or a dark entity. But anyway, this continues. With the influence of Christianity, Antomia has been cast as the devil or lord of evil. However, in ancestral legends, Antomia is neither good nor evil. He simply presides over both The kaibana or the shaman must ally with him to gain hist for their healing and magical work. If he were truly evil, he wouldn't grant them power to heal. It is humans who choose between good and evil, not Antomia, which I think is one

45:34 of the tenets of sustal Right. One of the beliefs of Susto is that there's not there's hardly ever really like evil out there that just exists as evil. There are maybe, I think, forces that can be used for evil, and it comes down to an individual person or to who are an individual who is taking control of of of certain things and what they use it for. Right, But also I do think that there are maybe just kind of evil sin entities out there. Anyway, This starts to wrap up and it says, among the embira of the Sinou River, Antomia appears to people as a gentle child, man or woman sitting in the water playing with the fish, a figure worlds apart from the red skinned, horned tailed, and cloven hoofed being of Christian tradition. And so this is really driving in that fact that, like with many of the things that we talk about on here, with the introduction of Christianity and Catholicism and colonialism, all of a sudden, all these things that these people believed, Oh no, that's the devil, no as the us like suddenly it's it's evil, and it's only evil because it's not the Christian Jesus or the Christian God. Right. And then this finishes up here it says, in fact, for the elders, Antomia is the spirit of the river, which again there is this really strong connection to the river and to water.

46:52 The next source that we have here, this is from this is my earth dot org and it says carving the river from the tree, and this talks about the creation story and also the idea of the relocation or the displacement if you would, of the Imbedap people. And this is an entry called carving the river from the tree, and this says one day the god Gottavi decided that he wanted to find water so that he and his family could wash and drink. The water was hidden in a rock by a woman named Guanga, and she refused to give Gottavi the water. He tricked her and learned to make the key she used to extract the water from the rock. He then turned her into an ant. However, before being transformed, Guanga had swallowed the entire river and so the water was no more. Yet Ghdavid did not give up. He recruited his family, the monkey, the squirrel, the otter and the fox, and they all worked together to get water out of the ancient tree Henneneh. Before felling the tree or before cutting it down, they all climbed on a raft so as they would not drown when the water flooded the forest, and after fifteen days on the raft, they finally arrived on dry land. Ever since, the river is the forest and the animals had been living in harmony. Gottavi is the god of the Embedda Chami people, a Riverine hunter gatherer group who reside in Panama and Colombia. Traditionally, many indigenous groups do not believe that land can be owned, and so they are taken aback when they find their home invaded by outsiders with machines used to cut down the forest. So I don't want to glaze over that story. So essentially again they there was a quest for water, and there was water

48:23 in this tree, and so the tree was felled, or whenever I hear the word felled, I think it was cut down. It was taken down right, and when it fell, the vines that hit the ground, that's what became the water, and it flooded the earth. And so they had to spend, of course, it says here the fifteen days on the raft until there was finally dry land available. So I just wanted to make sure that we all got the creation story for the water. This continues about the land and how the Embedda people view land, it says, and so despite the great efforts of their god to ensure access to the rivers in the forest, they must once again fight to find a home alongside the monkey, the squirrel, the otter, and the fox. Quote it is a game of musical chairs, says Drea Burbank, co founder of the b Core Savimbo, which seeks to help the Mbada Chami.

49:07 They keep getting displaced due to economic colonialism. Companies keep purchasing their land and they are unaware until one morning someone appears and begins chopping trees. Currently, some members of the Mbada Chami, a very traditional Deep Jungle group, have been resorted to living in barracks in prison like conditions. So I think this is really important to talk about because this is emphasizing. This was published, this says June tenth. It doesn't give me a year. But this is a modern site, right, and it's talking about things that are happening recently. It's talking about machinery used to cut down trees. This is modern day and this is colonialism. Colonialism is still very real and it's happening all over the world and this is just one example of it. I just want to make sure we all understand that that is what this is, or this is what that is. I don't know whichever way square rectangle. This says three generations are now involved in the process of finding a new location in the to call home, and Abelo the elder Shaman is determined to succeed soon he wants to die in the woods, teaching his children about their traditional ways like his ancestors before him. This continues. Abolo found an area of pristine deep forest at Badakhia within the Putu Mayo Amazon, which could be a wonderful location for the group to live and to continue pursuing its traditional ways of life. But for that to happen, they need money. Quote.

50:23 They do not like charities, it creates dependency, Burbank explains. In their eyes, the land was stolen from them and they do not want to accept it back as a gift. They want it to be their legal home and respected as such. To help fund the purchase of the land, they have raised some money by selling handmade traditional jewelry, hosting eco tourists, and working to track jaguars for Savimbo. Once the land is theirs again, the Amberachami can provide a priceless service for us, all conserving the forest and its biodiversity and acting as a barrier to block access to the rest of the pristine mountain that borders the area to be purchased. This is something I thought was very interesting that I wanted all of us to hear because I didn't really know this, Like I don't know the numbers of this, but this says no one protects the wilderness as well as the indigenous people that have inhabited it since time immemorial. Indigenous peoples make up about six percent of the world's population, but they can serve roughly eighty percent of all biodiversity. That is a staggering statistic.

51:20 I'm going to say it again. Indigenous people make up about six percent of the world's population, but they can serve roughly eighty percent of all biodiversity in the world. And this the statistic may be hard to believe, but it is acknowledged by the United Nations World Wildlife Fund and some governments. In Australia, for example, there is a growing trend of handing control of parks to aboriginal groups. The traditional ways of life that have developed in harmony with the surroundings, as well as generational knowledge and language to describe the land and understand its dynamics, all make stewardship by such groups the best option for conservation, far better than leaving the land free from human intervention. Once purchased. Beda Guerra will be protected under a special Colombian legal structure that treats the land as a legal subject and the Mbada Chami as its guardians. Because it is pristine primary force at the border of the tropical Ande and biodiversity hotspot, the conservation effect of saving this land will extend far beyond its technical perimeter. So essentially, this is a belief that I have always held close is land back because who better to maintain this land than the people that had maintained it for generations upon generations. What are we doing stealing land from people and then fucking it up for all of us? What make it make sense?

52:40 We're gonna be once in the next one before I start screaming at you all. This is an entry in a Smithsonian Magazine dot com page, and this says experienced Banama's ancestral indigenous cultures. Learn about this Central American country's ancestral indigenous culture and take in their spiritual connection to nature. But there's a section in here about to the Emberra, and this says to the Embedda people, rivers are an integral part of their lifestyle and cosmogenic beliefs. Most Imbeddah villages are located in the Ladian province. As I mentioned earlier, this is how we found out about the Embeddad peoples when we did the episode in the Ladien Gap, and the link will be of course in the discussion below.

53:20 It says with a few villages not far from Banama City, a boat ride on the Chagatas River can take visitors directly to villages located at the water's edge. The region known as the Chagata's Watershed Embedra region is home to an incredibly dense and biodiverse rainforest that nurtures many in Panama and in particular in Panama City, with fresh drinking water. In addition, this freshwater source is a key supplier of water for the nearby Banama Canal, and the Emberra are guardians and stewards of this critical natural resource for all while visiting travelers can learn the Embadas stories and ancestral connection to the surrounding rivers and rainforest land. Among the foundations of their natural and spiritual ideologies. The Ambedda believe that water, even that which we drink and use today, comes from a great tree that once felt in the distant past, and that is the Henanes story or the creation story, and from its vines, rivers were ultimately formed.

54:11 This worldview permeates their belief system and is evident in the ways in which the Ambedas strive to protect their natural land. The Ambedaz relation to water is also marked by the spirit of Antumia, an evil spirit that lives in the water, only visible to the Shamans or Kaimanas today. So this now, Smithsonian, Hey, sorry, hate to be this ghoul and tell you all, but that might be a typo or inaccurate. The antumia is not an evil spirit. It's not. I don't think it's fair to call it an evil spirit. I think it is a spirit that can be used for evil. However, it is a spirit, as we've heard from other stories in which that guy was being attacked by a antomia, another Antumia saved him. They can also be used to help. So I don't know, Smithsonian, hit me up if you need a folklorist contributor. What's the word I'm looking for? Never mind, don't you don't want me to for you? But yeah, I just noticed that I've read this source before, and I just noticed that anyway, it continues. Visitors will find that the Mbeda are well known for their handmade crafts such as black palm baskets or chunga and intricate animal carvings made from both tagua nuts and cocobolo, along with temporary tattoos made using a black dye from hagua fruit. And so this was mentioned earlier, and there's another source that we have about it in the story when we talk about doctor Esteban Morales meeting the Raibana Erito, and we described Arito as having streaked gray hair his chest painted with hagua designs.

55:36 And so what hagua is, it's Hagua is a fruit and the Embeda people use this fruit to make a temporary dye or ink or essentially they make temporary tattoos with this ink or dye that's made from the fruit. They have these like specific I don't want to use the word esthetic, but like these specific markings that they do with this ink or dye. And there and then there are these like temporary tattoos. So that is what this is talking about. It says on a visit, you will likely travel in a traditional dugout canoe like that of the Mbida, and may be able to experience additional dance and music. While many Embedda villages are located deep in the forest in Dadian Province, there has been some migration to the Panama Canal Watershed area. Villages such as Imberrakiera, Ayapuru, Baruru Puru, Emberra Dura are more accessible to visitors. Baradu Puru is home to the current chief of Chagada's Watershed Embedda region, Antonio Zarko, the grandson of a legendary Imbiddad leader, Antonio Zarko, who once trained the Apollo eleven astronauts who would ultimately go to the Moon. What these connections are wild?

56:35 This continues as the leader of a jungle survival program. The elder Zadko trained many service members than others from the USA Air Force and NASA, including Neil Armstrong and John Glenn, what and how to survive in foreign environments that would test their mental, physical, and spiritual resolve. And in doing so, this leader of the Embedda, among so many other indigenous peoples in Panama, have proven that the ideas of the past can guide us onto a better future. That's wild. I had no idea. This is amazing. So the indigenous Embeddra people trained astronauts Neil Armstrong, people that completely altered the course of science in the world, but also in like America, is because of indigenous people. The impact that indigenous people have in this world. Wow. Wow wow wow wow wow wow. That's my mind is blown right now. That's amazing. That is so cool. I had no idea. Wow, this is really neat okay. And the last source that I have here, this is a video called The Tattoo Lady published by a Drew Binski on YouTube.

57:35 So if you just searched the Tattoo Lady, this is from the count and Drew Binski. It's a short video. It's like a three four minute video about this Embedra woman and it's all about the Hagua tattoos. And in the description here, Drew says they have this local fruit called hagua, which only grows on select trees in central Sla South America. The Embedras extract black juice from the fruit and use it as an ink that they paint their bodies with and it stays active for about two weeks. The geometric shapes and designs have been passed down from their ancestors and they use it today as a sunscreen and shampoo as well, and then they said they interviewed this woman named Lisa and she is the main tattoo artist or hagua artist in this community of twenty four families.

58:18 This video was published in twenty twenty, so about five years ago, but I was watching some of it earlier and it was very very interesting and she, I mean, she looks so cool. So definitely check out that video. But as always, the direct link will be in these Suso Google talks and those are all those sources that I have for you today to welcome back Google friends. Thank you so much for listening. Remember, if you would like to hear your story on sustol, you can do so by sending it in to me by visiting my website or my link tree and hitting the sub story button.

59:01 And again, it can also be a photo, video or audio recording. Anything you would like to be featured on an episode or on social media, please send that into me. And if you would like to support the show, the easiest way to do so is by sharing the show with your coven of Ghul friends by following along on social media. That's at social podcasts on every social media platform for any and all updates and by leaving a positive rating or review wherever you are listening reviews like this one from Elia h Elia said this pod was shared by Bosa from Locata Radio, and I just knew I had to check it out. I've been an avid listener for almost a year and can say that I enjoy Aiden's detailed research, sense of humor, and warm personality. They make sure to be respectful and engaging with each story that they cover. I love noticing the new changes to the pod, whether it's a new sound they use or trying out a new segment. Elia, thank you so so much. That means so much to me that you are even noticing the small changes in the quality of the show whenever I try to upgrade or update them.

59:56 And also big, big shout out to my Ghoul friends over if you have not listened to that podcast with Usa and Mala, please do yourself a favor go listen to them. They are awesome creators, not only behind the mic, but also in the community. They do really cool stuff in La so please go check them out. It's Loca Radio. Love love love them. They're They're super cool and Elia, thank you so much for that review. That means so much to me. Finally, you can also support Susto by signing up to be a Patreon on patreon dot com slash sustal podcast. For three dollars or more a month. You get bonus and exclusive content like early and ad free episodes and videos like the video version of this one. Hello, Hello, and a major thank you to this episode's patron Saints.

1:00:40 You are Liza Rachel, Alejandra Luthor, April d Josette, Sam Mandy, Jules, Lori, Genie, Desiree, c Nedesa, rachel A, Asusena, Marlene Laney, Desiree A, Carla Ricardo, Vanessa, Mariza, Nieves, Manormal, Iris, mad Floor, Lena Nightingville, Clint, Rachel w and Armani. Thank you all so so much for your support. It truly means the underwater world to me, the aquatic world. If you will, I will talk to you in the next episode and until then, Noteo Sustas Bye,